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MENENDEZ SLAMS US POSITION ON ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
Apostolos Zoupaniotis
Monday, June 23 08
greek_news
New York
Senator Robert Menendez sharply criticized the official U.S. position
on the Armenian Genocide, during a confirmation hearing at Senateʼs
Foreign Relations Committee of the Ambassador designate to Armenia
Marie Yovanovitch. Introducing a series of documents and arguments
that proved that what happened in 1915 was indeed Genocide, Senator
Menendez grilled Yovanovitch, whose nomination in uncertain.
Greek News presents the excerpts of the dialogue between Menendez
and Yovanovitch, as they were recorded by the Federal News Service.
SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me
congratulate all the nominees on their nominations and your willingness
to serve. We appreciate that.
Ambassador Yovanovitch, let me start at the outset by acknowledging
and thanking you for your 22 years of very distinguished service to
our country.
I appreciate your service.
In your opening statement, you acknowledge the mass killings, ethnic
cleansing and forced detentions that devastated over 1-1/2 Armenians
at the end of the Ottoman Empire; is that correct?
MR. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, sir, that's correct. It's the administration's
policy to acknowledge these historical facts.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Would you agree with the characterization -- and if I
may, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to be referring to a series of documents,
so if I could give the ambassador a copy of them so she could have
them in front of her, that would be helpful. And I'd ask unanimous
consent that these documents be included in the record.
SEN. CARDIN: Without objection, the documents will be included in
the record, and -- (inaudible).
SEN. MENENDEZ: I would ask you, would you agree with the
characterization by President Bush on April 24th of 2004, which is
the first referenced item before you, where he says, and I quote:
On this day we pause in remembrance of one of the most horrible
tragedies of the 20th century, the annihilation of as many as 1.5
million Armenians through forced exile and murder at the end of the
Ottoman Empire." Would you agree with that? I just need a yes or no.
MR. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, sir.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Okay. Thank you.
Would you agree that the use of the words "ethnic cleansing," which
you used in your opening statement, would include the deliberate
inflicting on a group of conditions of life calculated to bring about
its physical destruction in whole or in part? Would you agree that's
what generally ethnic cleansing would be defined as?
MR. YOVANOVITCH: There's no -
SEN. MENENDEZ: Let me read it -- say it again to you so you've got
it before your answer.
The deliberate inflicting, on a group of individuals, of conditions
of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction, in whole
or in part.
MS. YOVANOVITCH: The question that you're asking, and I hope you
understand my answer, the determination of that is a policy decision
that I'm not authorized to make right now. It's a decision for the
administration, for the president and the secretary.
SEN. MENENDEZ: I respect your answer. I'm not asking you, what is
the policy or a policy? I'm simply asking, you used the words in
your opening statement -- ethnic cleansing. And I'm asking you a
simple question.
Would you describe ethnic cleansing as a deliberate inflicting, on a
group of individuals, of conditions of life calculated to bring about
its physical destruction, in whole or in part? And if the answer is
no, then tell me what you mean by ethnic cleansing.
MS. YOVANOVITCH: There is no question that at the end of the Ottoman
Empire, there was mass murder. There was starvation. There were
deliberate rapes.
There was forced exile of one-and-a-half million Armenians at the
end of the Ottoman Empire.
SEN. MENENDEZ: And is that what you describe as your definition of
ethnic cleansing, those facts?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Would you look at the document that references number
two there, which says -- these are documents, that I'm going to be
referring to, by American officials at the time of history.
And I would ask you whether the statement by then-U.S. Ambassador
Morgenthau who wrote, on July 16th, 1915, it appears that a campaign
of race extermination is in progress under a pretext of reprisal
against rebellion.
Is that a fact that you would agree with, as reported, as historical
fact, that Ambassador Morgenthau reported?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes. It's certainly a fact here -- I'm reading
off of this handout that you gave me -- that Ambassador Morgenthau
reported this.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Thank you.
Would you look at number three, where it says, where U.S. Counsel,
in Aleppo, Jesse Jackson reported to Ambassador Morgenthau on June
5th, 1915, that it is without doubt a carefully planned scheme to
thoroughly extinguish the Armenian race.
Is that what Counsel Jackson said in his statement to Ambassador
Morgenthau?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes. According to this document that you've given me,
that's correct.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Number four, where U.S. Counsel, in Harput, Leslie
Davis reported to Ambassador Morgenthau on July 24th, 1915, quote,
"It has been no secret that the plan was to destroy the Armenian
race as a race. But the methods used have been more cold- blooded
and barbarous, if not more effective, than I had first supposed."
Is that the statement issued then by the counsel?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, as I'm reading this from what you've given me.
SEN. MENENDEZ: And finally, on number five, where the U.S. ambassador
to the Ottoman Empire from 1916 to 1917, Abram Elkus, telegraphed the
secretary of State on October 17th, 1960, and said, quote, "In order
to avoid opprobrium of the civilized world, which the continuation of
massacres would arouse, Turkish officials have now adopted and are
executing the unchecked policy of extermination through starvation,
exhaustion and the brutality of treatment hardly surpassed even in
Turkish history." Is that a statement that was issued at that time
by the U.S. ambassador?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, as I'm reading it here now.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Now, the final reference I want you to look at is
number six.
And would you agree that Article II of the Convention on the Prevention
and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, of which the United States is
a signatory party to and ratified, a copy of which I have before you,
states under Article II, in the present convention, genocide means any
of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy in whole
or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group as such:
killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to
members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions
of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole
or in part? Is that a fair statement of the reading of Article II of
the convention?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, sir.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Is that a yes?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Yeah, okay.
Therefore -- and I -- Mr. Chair, if you'll indulge me -- therefore,
would not the facts that you acknowledge -- and please listen to my
question -- would not -- intently -- would not the facts that you
acknowledge in your opening statement and those facts that you have
recognized as historical facts during the period of 1915 to 1923 meet
the definition of Article II that you just -- I just had you read?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Thank you. It's certainly true that this is the
definition of genocide here, and I'm familiar enough with the record
to have read some of the accounts from our embassy and our consulate
at the end of the Ottoman Empire which are truly shocking in terms
of scale and the individual stories, as individual families and the
things that happened.
It's the responsibility and the duty of embassies and consulates
to inform and represent honestly, faithfully, objectively to the
department, to Washington, to the president.
And it is the president, it is the secretary of State that makes
the policy, that makes the determination of how to characterize --
(inaudible).
SEN. MENENDEZ: And I am not asking you for a declaration of policy. I
have not even asked you about a maybe more ultimate question. What I'm
asking you, as a career Foreign Service officer, well-educated, with a
lot of experience -- would the facts, as recognized by President Bush
in public statements, as recognized by you in your opening statement
and in terms of the historical documents that I presented to you --
would those facts fall in line -- clearly you mentioned the killing
members of a group. You mentioned murder in your opening statement.
MS. YOVANOVITCH: I did.
SEN. MENENDEZ: That's killing members of a group, is it not?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, it is.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Would it not be fair to say, in furtherance of some of
the questions I asked you, and I think you very appropriately answered
some of the acts that took place, not only the murders and rapes and
forced deportation of people or forced exile of people, would that not
clearly be causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of a group?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes.
SEN. MENENDEZ: And clearly, it would also be deliberately inflicting
on a group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical
destruction in whole or in part. Obviously, those who were murdered in
mass numbers, 1.5 million, obviously those who were exiled, obviously
those who, through other actions, were taken place -- that would fall
into that category, would it not?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: It's a policy decision, sir.
SEN. MENENDEZ: I want to thank you for your honest answers.
Mr. Chairman, if I may -- I appreciate your indulgence. I will
have a series of other questions for the record. I don't want to
delay. But what's going on here -- it is a shame that career Foreign
Service officers have to be brought before the committee and find
difficulty in acknowledging historical facts and find difficulty
in acknowledging the realities of what has been internationally
recognized, Mr. Chairman. Not because I say it; I don't hold myself
out to be that type of a scholar.
But the fact is that the International Association of Genocide
Scholars, the preeminent authority on genocide, has unanimously --
not equivocated -- unanimously declared the Armenian Genocide a
genocide. And it is amazing to me that we can talk about millions,
you know, a million and a half human beings who were slaughtered.
We can talk about those who were raped. We can talk about those who
were forcibly pushed out of their country. And we can have presidential
acknowledgements of that. But then we cannot call it what it is.
It is a ridiculous dance that the administration is doing over the
use of the term "genocide." It is an attempt to suggest that we don't
want to strain our relationships with Turkey.
But I have to say the fact that we are sending off our diplomats
in such a manner; that they are not able to recognize a historical
event that is clearly documented by credible, objective historians,
an event that is so tragic, an event that the recognition of which is
personal for millions of Armenians and descendants of Armenians, many
of whom are Americans, is also something that I think is detrimental
to our foreign policy.
Mr. Chairman, we have actually had the U.S. ambassador to --
former U.S.
ambassador to Armenia attend every year in April the commemoration of
the Armenian genocide. It is amazing that we send a U.S. ambassador
to the commemoration of an Armenian genocide -- which I would hope
that if your nomination is ultimately approved by the Senate, that
you would commit yourself to attending -- and yet we cannot -- how do
you go and go to a commemoration of the Armenian genocide and never,
ever use the recognition of that fact?
I believe acknowledging historical facts as they are is a principle
that is easily understood both at home and abroad. So while the
administration believes that this posture benefits us vis-a-vis our
relationship with Turkey, I think they should also recognize that
it hurts our relationship elsewhere, and it tarnishes the United
States' history of being a place where truth is spoken to power. And
acknowledgement of our failures in the past make us stronger, not
weaker, and recognizing the evils of the past do not trap us, but
they set us free.
That is what I hope we can be able to achieve, Mr. Chairman.
I have great admiration for Ambassador Yovanovitch. She is the designee
here, and having to respond to questions. And as I told her privately,
I would be pursuing the line of questioning. I appreciate her intent
to be as frank and open as possible. And Mr. Chairman, if you have
a second round, I have a different set of questions for one of the
other candidates.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Ambassador. Would you, if you were to be confirmed by
the Senate, make a commitment to this committee that you would attend
the Armenian genocide commemoration, which is held every April 24th,
as Yerevan, as previous ambassadors have?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: If I were confirmed, I would certainly commit to
attend to Armenian Remembrance Day.
--Boundary_(ID_5LhCxm8Rt5faOmELkYLlrA)--
Apostolos Zoupaniotis
Monday, June 23 08
greek_news
New York
Senator Robert Menendez sharply criticized the official U.S. position
on the Armenian Genocide, during a confirmation hearing at Senateʼs
Foreign Relations Committee of the Ambassador designate to Armenia
Marie Yovanovitch. Introducing a series of documents and arguments
that proved that what happened in 1915 was indeed Genocide, Senator
Menendez grilled Yovanovitch, whose nomination in uncertain.
Greek News presents the excerpts of the dialogue between Menendez
and Yovanovitch, as they were recorded by the Federal News Service.
SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me
congratulate all the nominees on their nominations and your willingness
to serve. We appreciate that.
Ambassador Yovanovitch, let me start at the outset by acknowledging
and thanking you for your 22 years of very distinguished service to
our country.
I appreciate your service.
In your opening statement, you acknowledge the mass killings, ethnic
cleansing and forced detentions that devastated over 1-1/2 Armenians
at the end of the Ottoman Empire; is that correct?
MR. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, sir, that's correct. It's the administration's
policy to acknowledge these historical facts.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Would you agree with the characterization -- and if I
may, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to be referring to a series of documents,
so if I could give the ambassador a copy of them so she could have
them in front of her, that would be helpful. And I'd ask unanimous
consent that these documents be included in the record.
SEN. CARDIN: Without objection, the documents will be included in
the record, and -- (inaudible).
SEN. MENENDEZ: I would ask you, would you agree with the
characterization by President Bush on April 24th of 2004, which is
the first referenced item before you, where he says, and I quote:
On this day we pause in remembrance of one of the most horrible
tragedies of the 20th century, the annihilation of as many as 1.5
million Armenians through forced exile and murder at the end of the
Ottoman Empire." Would you agree with that? I just need a yes or no.
MR. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, sir.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Okay. Thank you.
Would you agree that the use of the words "ethnic cleansing," which
you used in your opening statement, would include the deliberate
inflicting on a group of conditions of life calculated to bring about
its physical destruction in whole or in part? Would you agree that's
what generally ethnic cleansing would be defined as?
MR. YOVANOVITCH: There's no -
SEN. MENENDEZ: Let me read it -- say it again to you so you've got
it before your answer.
The deliberate inflicting, on a group of individuals, of conditions
of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction, in whole
or in part.
MS. YOVANOVITCH: The question that you're asking, and I hope you
understand my answer, the determination of that is a policy decision
that I'm not authorized to make right now. It's a decision for the
administration, for the president and the secretary.
SEN. MENENDEZ: I respect your answer. I'm not asking you, what is
the policy or a policy? I'm simply asking, you used the words in
your opening statement -- ethnic cleansing. And I'm asking you a
simple question.
Would you describe ethnic cleansing as a deliberate inflicting, on a
group of individuals, of conditions of life calculated to bring about
its physical destruction, in whole or in part? And if the answer is
no, then tell me what you mean by ethnic cleansing.
MS. YOVANOVITCH: There is no question that at the end of the Ottoman
Empire, there was mass murder. There was starvation. There were
deliberate rapes.
There was forced exile of one-and-a-half million Armenians at the
end of the Ottoman Empire.
SEN. MENENDEZ: And is that what you describe as your definition of
ethnic cleansing, those facts?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Would you look at the document that references number
two there, which says -- these are documents, that I'm going to be
referring to, by American officials at the time of history.
And I would ask you whether the statement by then-U.S. Ambassador
Morgenthau who wrote, on July 16th, 1915, it appears that a campaign
of race extermination is in progress under a pretext of reprisal
against rebellion.
Is that a fact that you would agree with, as reported, as historical
fact, that Ambassador Morgenthau reported?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes. It's certainly a fact here -- I'm reading
off of this handout that you gave me -- that Ambassador Morgenthau
reported this.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Thank you.
Would you look at number three, where it says, where U.S. Counsel,
in Aleppo, Jesse Jackson reported to Ambassador Morgenthau on June
5th, 1915, that it is without doubt a carefully planned scheme to
thoroughly extinguish the Armenian race.
Is that what Counsel Jackson said in his statement to Ambassador
Morgenthau?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes. According to this document that you've given me,
that's correct.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Number four, where U.S. Counsel, in Harput, Leslie
Davis reported to Ambassador Morgenthau on July 24th, 1915, quote,
"It has been no secret that the plan was to destroy the Armenian
race as a race. But the methods used have been more cold- blooded
and barbarous, if not more effective, than I had first supposed."
Is that the statement issued then by the counsel?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, as I'm reading this from what you've given me.
SEN. MENENDEZ: And finally, on number five, where the U.S. ambassador
to the Ottoman Empire from 1916 to 1917, Abram Elkus, telegraphed the
secretary of State on October 17th, 1960, and said, quote, "In order
to avoid opprobrium of the civilized world, which the continuation of
massacres would arouse, Turkish officials have now adopted and are
executing the unchecked policy of extermination through starvation,
exhaustion and the brutality of treatment hardly surpassed even in
Turkish history." Is that a statement that was issued at that time
by the U.S. ambassador?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, as I'm reading it here now.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Now, the final reference I want you to look at is
number six.
And would you agree that Article II of the Convention on the Prevention
and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, of which the United States is
a signatory party to and ratified, a copy of which I have before you,
states under Article II, in the present convention, genocide means any
of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy in whole
or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group as such:
killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to
members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions
of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole
or in part? Is that a fair statement of the reading of Article II of
the convention?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, sir.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Is that a yes?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Yeah, okay.
Therefore -- and I -- Mr. Chair, if you'll indulge me -- therefore,
would not the facts that you acknowledge -- and please listen to my
question -- would not -- intently -- would not the facts that you
acknowledge in your opening statement and those facts that you have
recognized as historical facts during the period of 1915 to 1923 meet
the definition of Article II that you just -- I just had you read?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Thank you. It's certainly true that this is the
definition of genocide here, and I'm familiar enough with the record
to have read some of the accounts from our embassy and our consulate
at the end of the Ottoman Empire which are truly shocking in terms
of scale and the individual stories, as individual families and the
things that happened.
It's the responsibility and the duty of embassies and consulates
to inform and represent honestly, faithfully, objectively to the
department, to Washington, to the president.
And it is the president, it is the secretary of State that makes
the policy, that makes the determination of how to characterize --
(inaudible).
SEN. MENENDEZ: And I am not asking you for a declaration of policy. I
have not even asked you about a maybe more ultimate question. What I'm
asking you, as a career Foreign Service officer, well-educated, with a
lot of experience -- would the facts, as recognized by President Bush
in public statements, as recognized by you in your opening statement
and in terms of the historical documents that I presented to you --
would those facts fall in line -- clearly you mentioned the killing
members of a group. You mentioned murder in your opening statement.
MS. YOVANOVITCH: I did.
SEN. MENENDEZ: That's killing members of a group, is it not?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes, it is.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Would it not be fair to say, in furtherance of some of
the questions I asked you, and I think you very appropriately answered
some of the acts that took place, not only the murders and rapes and
forced deportation of people or forced exile of people, would that not
clearly be causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of a group?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: Yes.
SEN. MENENDEZ: And clearly, it would also be deliberately inflicting
on a group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical
destruction in whole or in part. Obviously, those who were murdered in
mass numbers, 1.5 million, obviously those who were exiled, obviously
those who, through other actions, were taken place -- that would fall
into that category, would it not?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: It's a policy decision, sir.
SEN. MENENDEZ: I want to thank you for your honest answers.
Mr. Chairman, if I may -- I appreciate your indulgence. I will
have a series of other questions for the record. I don't want to
delay. But what's going on here -- it is a shame that career Foreign
Service officers have to be brought before the committee and find
difficulty in acknowledging historical facts and find difficulty
in acknowledging the realities of what has been internationally
recognized, Mr. Chairman. Not because I say it; I don't hold myself
out to be that type of a scholar.
But the fact is that the International Association of Genocide
Scholars, the preeminent authority on genocide, has unanimously --
not equivocated -- unanimously declared the Armenian Genocide a
genocide. And it is amazing to me that we can talk about millions,
you know, a million and a half human beings who were slaughtered.
We can talk about those who were raped. We can talk about those who
were forcibly pushed out of their country. And we can have presidential
acknowledgements of that. But then we cannot call it what it is.
It is a ridiculous dance that the administration is doing over the
use of the term "genocide." It is an attempt to suggest that we don't
want to strain our relationships with Turkey.
But I have to say the fact that we are sending off our diplomats
in such a manner; that they are not able to recognize a historical
event that is clearly documented by credible, objective historians,
an event that is so tragic, an event that the recognition of which is
personal for millions of Armenians and descendants of Armenians, many
of whom are Americans, is also something that I think is detrimental
to our foreign policy.
Mr. Chairman, we have actually had the U.S. ambassador to --
former U.S.
ambassador to Armenia attend every year in April the commemoration of
the Armenian genocide. It is amazing that we send a U.S. ambassador
to the commemoration of an Armenian genocide -- which I would hope
that if your nomination is ultimately approved by the Senate, that
you would commit yourself to attending -- and yet we cannot -- how do
you go and go to a commemoration of the Armenian genocide and never,
ever use the recognition of that fact?
I believe acknowledging historical facts as they are is a principle
that is easily understood both at home and abroad. So while the
administration believes that this posture benefits us vis-a-vis our
relationship with Turkey, I think they should also recognize that
it hurts our relationship elsewhere, and it tarnishes the United
States' history of being a place where truth is spoken to power. And
acknowledgement of our failures in the past make us stronger, not
weaker, and recognizing the evils of the past do not trap us, but
they set us free.
That is what I hope we can be able to achieve, Mr. Chairman.
I have great admiration for Ambassador Yovanovitch. She is the designee
here, and having to respond to questions. And as I told her privately,
I would be pursuing the line of questioning. I appreciate her intent
to be as frank and open as possible. And Mr. Chairman, if you have
a second round, I have a different set of questions for one of the
other candidates.
SEN. MENENDEZ: Ambassador. Would you, if you were to be confirmed by
the Senate, make a commitment to this committee that you would attend
the Armenian genocide commemoration, which is held every April 24th,
as Yerevan, as previous ambassadors have?
MS. YOVANOVITCH: If I were confirmed, I would certainly commit to
attend to Armenian Remembrance Day.
--Boundary_(ID_5LhCxm8Rt5faOmELkYLlrA)--