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Armenia, Turkey should open new page in relations - envoy
Haykakan Zhamanak, Yerevan
30 Mar 07 p 3
Turkish ambassador to Georgia Ertan Tezgor has called on Armenia to go
forward with dialogue for the sake of new generations and open up new
pages in the relations of the two nations. He said this in an
interview with Armenian Haykakan Zhamanak paper while visiting Yerevan
to attend the funeral of the late Armenian prime minister. The envoy
praised the centuries-old peaceful coexistence of Turks and Armenians
in the Ottoman empire. Tezgor is confident that new thinking, new ways
and approaches should be devised for improving the general picture in
the South Caucasus, and believes that dialogue between Armenia and
Turkey will be fruitful. The following is the text of Anna Hakobyan
report by Armenian newspaper Haykakan Zhamanak on 30 March entitled
"We must open a new page in our relations" and subheaded "Turkish
ambassador to Georgia Ertan Tezgor says"; subheadings have been
inserted editorially:
[Correspondent] Mr ambassador, how logical is it that Turkey
conditions its relations with Armenia through a second country,
particularly Azerbaijan? Does it mean that Turkey will always see its
relations with Armenia not bilaterally but through a third country?
Turkey keen on regional stability
[Tezgor] Since the first day of independence of the three South
Caucasus republics, the Turkish foreign policy has considered the
stability in this region very important. Turkey is greatly interested
in the stability in the Caucasus as it is an important strategic
region. Presently, as before, Turkey, which is also an important
player in this region, works in favour of stability in this
region. Since the beginning we tried to assist the stabilization of
regional conflicts, be it Abkhaz, South Ossetian or other. We do it
firstly for the prosperity and well being of the people living
here. Let us remember that for centuries people have lived here in
peace together, whether Christian or Muslim. However, as the region is
important for other players too, we have always been participants in
conflicts [as given]. We live in the 21st century now and we have to
build a new way of living together. We have to be able to see the
general picture. If all of is able to see it, it will be easy to serve
the prosperity of the people. Dialogue is the most important.
[Correspondent] Still, what can you say about the Armenian-Turkish
bilateral relations?
[Tezgor] If we speak of the Armenian-Turkish bilateral relations, the
general picture is important here too. We have to consider it and have
to be able to find new ways and ideas. It is very important. In
reality not only Turkey but also Armenia wants to have these
relations. I know that [Azerbaijani] President Ilham Aliyev also sees
this general picture, and Armenia also takes it into consideration. It
is important to see things in a new way, to have a new approach. The
most important is to reject the "win-win" situation. If we look at the
past, the Armenian-Turkish coexistence together during the Ottoman
empire can be a great example for us. At that time both Turks and
Armenians had the same culture and religion as today, but we were able
to respect each other's values. It is impossible to imagine how we
managed to achieve it. Sometimes, I ask myself what happened after
all these centuries and who is guilty, us, you or maybe others? We are
yet to reveal what foreign interference there has been, as a result of
which we have lost all that. Thus, today we have to learn from the
past and create a new way of thinking for the next generations. There
were 24 Armenian ambassadors in Turkey during the Ottoman empire.
During 1915 the ambassador was also Armenian. Of course, those were
most terrible years for the region and the whole Europe. We have the
lessons of history and have to do everything not to allow foreign
interference again. We have to speak to each other and we do
it. However, the dialogue must develop.
[Correspondent] I think there is no need to return to the 1915 and
speculate on who is guilty and who is not. You say that we need to
look to the future and create dialogue. In this connection, we should
remember that the Armenian president has answered the known offer of
the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The Armenian
president, for his part, offered to create an Armenian-Turkish
inter-governmental commission, which would take over all the issues,
including the historic and old ones. The Turkish side has not answered
this offer until now. What is the reason, and why is the offer
unacceptable for you?
Turkish-Armenian dialogue should deepen
[Tezgor] First, the whole activity of writing letters shows the honest
intend of the Turkish government to settle relations with
Armenia. This is the reason why Prime Minister Erdogan sent the letter
to President Kocharyan. An answer followed. A discussion began with
these letters, which is dialogue. Concerning your question, there are
always different approaches and opinions. However, we are still
waiting for an answer that will allow the continuation of the process
and give possibility to consider different suggestions. Thus, the door
is still open. We hope that in the nearest future all issues will be
discussed. Personally, I do not know at this moment in which direction
there will be developments but we are waiting for an answer in order
to continue the dialogue.
[Correspondent] Armenia has answered. What other answer do you need?
[Tezgor] Let us not make wordings. We are expecting in the least that
this procedure is given a continuation, that it develops, and that we
are able to discuss the differences between the proposals of the
Turkish prime minister and the Armenian president. However, in reality
we are waiting for an answer that will give an opportunity for the
sides to unite and discuss everything freely.
[Correspondent] What step do you think Armenia should make in order
for Turkey to consider it sufficient to create relations with Armenia,
and what is Turkey ready to do for the same purpose?
Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi-Baku railway open for others
[Tezgor] I am not in a position to discuss such questions. You know
that unfortunately I have arrived to Yerevan upon a sad event. My
country and I have offered deep condolences to your country upon the
death of the prime minister. My mission is within this
event. However, as I already said, it is important that we see the
general picture. We have to discuss all issues together.
[Correspondent] Mr ambassador, Turkey intends to build the
Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi railway together with Azerbaijan and Georgia,
which goes around Armenia. Millions of dollars are spent on this
project, while there already is the Kars-Gyumri railway that does not
work because the Armenian-Turkish border is closed. Does this not mean
that Turkey pursues the policy of isolation?
[Tezgor] If you read carefully the Tbilisi declaration, which was
signed by [Azerbaijani and Georgian] Presidents Aliyev and Saakashvili
and Prime Minister Erdogan, it says that the project is open to all
countries. It is stated in the declaration clearly. The idea of the
railway is not to isolate Armenia. We all live in this region
together. If we begin to isolate one of the sides, how can we have
stability in the region? It is important to have friendly relations
with all countries in the region.
[Correspondent] In that case, what will be the reply of Turkey and
Azerbaijan if Armenia states today that it wants to join the project?
[Tezgor] First, we have to make sure that there has been such a
proposal. Afterwards, all the participants in the project must
discuss and give their consent to it. If the declaration says it, the
project is open. However, the issue must be discussed, as there are
other issues that create conflict and take us away from the reality.
[Correspondent] Mr ambassador, Armenians freely travel to Turkey using
the Yerevan-Istanbul flight, but they cannot do the same by road. Do
you see a conflict of logic here?
[Tezgor] Yes. But let us begin from the fact that after the fall of
the Soviet Union, a number of conflicting issues came forth. Regional
issues have not yet been solved between the countries. I do not want
to talk about concrete questions but I would like to say again that it
is important for us to be able to see the general picture. Yes,
certainly the logic is important. However, to reveal what is logical
and what is not we have to take the general picture into
consideration. We cannot consider only one point and find the logic
out of it.
[Correspondent] Which is this general picture?
Time to look at the future
[Tezgor] It is time for us to be able to see and grasp the
developments around us correctly. The policy of the European
neighbourhood towards the three countries of the South Caucasus, the
energy, the roads, the railways, new procedures in the world. Things
change, and we have to be able to open a new page in our
relations. Certainly we have to see the pages of the past that have
already been written. But looking only at the past, we have not
reached anything so far. We have had only a "lose-lose" instead of a
"win-win". Thus, we have to take into consideration the developments
around us and open a new page for us. For this we have to merely look
at the future, to develop new ways of thinking and new approaches.
[Correspondent] You met Armenian Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanyan
yesterday. Have you discussed bilateral political issues during the
meeting? Have you brought a message from the Turkish government and
are any developments or meetings expected in the future?
[Tezgor] First, I have to say that I have known Vardan Oskanyan since
1994, from meetings within the [OSCE] Minsk Group. Afterwards, we have
met again in different international events. We have developed a
friendly relationship. I arrived to participate in the funeral
ceremony of the prime minister. Naturally, we met and exchanged
ideas. However, it was not a political talk. We had a friendly
conversation.
Haykakan Zhamanak, Yerevan
30 Mar 07 p 3
Turkish ambassador to Georgia Ertan Tezgor has called on Armenia to go
forward with dialogue for the sake of new generations and open up new
pages in the relations of the two nations. He said this in an
interview with Armenian Haykakan Zhamanak paper while visiting Yerevan
to attend the funeral of the late Armenian prime minister. The envoy
praised the centuries-old peaceful coexistence of Turks and Armenians
in the Ottoman empire. Tezgor is confident that new thinking, new ways
and approaches should be devised for improving the general picture in
the South Caucasus, and believes that dialogue between Armenia and
Turkey will be fruitful. The following is the text of Anna Hakobyan
report by Armenian newspaper Haykakan Zhamanak on 30 March entitled
"We must open a new page in our relations" and subheaded "Turkish
ambassador to Georgia Ertan Tezgor says"; subheadings have been
inserted editorially:
[Correspondent] Mr ambassador, how logical is it that Turkey
conditions its relations with Armenia through a second country,
particularly Azerbaijan? Does it mean that Turkey will always see its
relations with Armenia not bilaterally but through a third country?
Turkey keen on regional stability
[Tezgor] Since the first day of independence of the three South
Caucasus republics, the Turkish foreign policy has considered the
stability in this region very important. Turkey is greatly interested
in the stability in the Caucasus as it is an important strategic
region. Presently, as before, Turkey, which is also an important
player in this region, works in favour of stability in this
region. Since the beginning we tried to assist the stabilization of
regional conflicts, be it Abkhaz, South Ossetian or other. We do it
firstly for the prosperity and well being of the people living
here. Let us remember that for centuries people have lived here in
peace together, whether Christian or Muslim. However, as the region is
important for other players too, we have always been participants in
conflicts [as given]. We live in the 21st century now and we have to
build a new way of living together. We have to be able to see the
general picture. If all of is able to see it, it will be easy to serve
the prosperity of the people. Dialogue is the most important.
[Correspondent] Still, what can you say about the Armenian-Turkish
bilateral relations?
[Tezgor] If we speak of the Armenian-Turkish bilateral relations, the
general picture is important here too. We have to consider it and have
to be able to find new ways and ideas. It is very important. In
reality not only Turkey but also Armenia wants to have these
relations. I know that [Azerbaijani] President Ilham Aliyev also sees
this general picture, and Armenia also takes it into consideration. It
is important to see things in a new way, to have a new approach. The
most important is to reject the "win-win" situation. If we look at the
past, the Armenian-Turkish coexistence together during the Ottoman
empire can be a great example for us. At that time both Turks and
Armenians had the same culture and religion as today, but we were able
to respect each other's values. It is impossible to imagine how we
managed to achieve it. Sometimes, I ask myself what happened after
all these centuries and who is guilty, us, you or maybe others? We are
yet to reveal what foreign interference there has been, as a result of
which we have lost all that. Thus, today we have to learn from the
past and create a new way of thinking for the next generations. There
were 24 Armenian ambassadors in Turkey during the Ottoman empire.
During 1915 the ambassador was also Armenian. Of course, those were
most terrible years for the region and the whole Europe. We have the
lessons of history and have to do everything not to allow foreign
interference again. We have to speak to each other and we do
it. However, the dialogue must develop.
[Correspondent] I think there is no need to return to the 1915 and
speculate on who is guilty and who is not. You say that we need to
look to the future and create dialogue. In this connection, we should
remember that the Armenian president has answered the known offer of
the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The Armenian
president, for his part, offered to create an Armenian-Turkish
inter-governmental commission, which would take over all the issues,
including the historic and old ones. The Turkish side has not answered
this offer until now. What is the reason, and why is the offer
unacceptable for you?
Turkish-Armenian dialogue should deepen
[Tezgor] First, the whole activity of writing letters shows the honest
intend of the Turkish government to settle relations with
Armenia. This is the reason why Prime Minister Erdogan sent the letter
to President Kocharyan. An answer followed. A discussion began with
these letters, which is dialogue. Concerning your question, there are
always different approaches and opinions. However, we are still
waiting for an answer that will allow the continuation of the process
and give possibility to consider different suggestions. Thus, the door
is still open. We hope that in the nearest future all issues will be
discussed. Personally, I do not know at this moment in which direction
there will be developments but we are waiting for an answer in order
to continue the dialogue.
[Correspondent] Armenia has answered. What other answer do you need?
[Tezgor] Let us not make wordings. We are expecting in the least that
this procedure is given a continuation, that it develops, and that we
are able to discuss the differences between the proposals of the
Turkish prime minister and the Armenian president. However, in reality
we are waiting for an answer that will give an opportunity for the
sides to unite and discuss everything freely.
[Correspondent] What step do you think Armenia should make in order
for Turkey to consider it sufficient to create relations with Armenia,
and what is Turkey ready to do for the same purpose?
Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi-Baku railway open for others
[Tezgor] I am not in a position to discuss such questions. You know
that unfortunately I have arrived to Yerevan upon a sad event. My
country and I have offered deep condolences to your country upon the
death of the prime minister. My mission is within this
event. However, as I already said, it is important that we see the
general picture. We have to discuss all issues together.
[Correspondent] Mr ambassador, Turkey intends to build the
Kars-Akhalkalaki-Tbilisi railway together with Azerbaijan and Georgia,
which goes around Armenia. Millions of dollars are spent on this
project, while there already is the Kars-Gyumri railway that does not
work because the Armenian-Turkish border is closed. Does this not mean
that Turkey pursues the policy of isolation?
[Tezgor] If you read carefully the Tbilisi declaration, which was
signed by [Azerbaijani and Georgian] Presidents Aliyev and Saakashvili
and Prime Minister Erdogan, it says that the project is open to all
countries. It is stated in the declaration clearly. The idea of the
railway is not to isolate Armenia. We all live in this region
together. If we begin to isolate one of the sides, how can we have
stability in the region? It is important to have friendly relations
with all countries in the region.
[Correspondent] In that case, what will be the reply of Turkey and
Azerbaijan if Armenia states today that it wants to join the project?
[Tezgor] First, we have to make sure that there has been such a
proposal. Afterwards, all the participants in the project must
discuss and give their consent to it. If the declaration says it, the
project is open. However, the issue must be discussed, as there are
other issues that create conflict and take us away from the reality.
[Correspondent] Mr ambassador, Armenians freely travel to Turkey using
the Yerevan-Istanbul flight, but they cannot do the same by road. Do
you see a conflict of logic here?
[Tezgor] Yes. But let us begin from the fact that after the fall of
the Soviet Union, a number of conflicting issues came forth. Regional
issues have not yet been solved between the countries. I do not want
to talk about concrete questions but I would like to say again that it
is important for us to be able to see the general picture. Yes,
certainly the logic is important. However, to reveal what is logical
and what is not we have to take the general picture into
consideration. We cannot consider only one point and find the logic
out of it.
[Correspondent] Which is this general picture?
Time to look at the future
[Tezgor] It is time for us to be able to see and grasp the
developments around us correctly. The policy of the European
neighbourhood towards the three countries of the South Caucasus, the
energy, the roads, the railways, new procedures in the world. Things
change, and we have to be able to open a new page in our
relations. Certainly we have to see the pages of the past that have
already been written. But looking only at the past, we have not
reached anything so far. We have had only a "lose-lose" instead of a
"win-win". Thus, we have to take into consideration the developments
around us and open a new page for us. For this we have to merely look
at the future, to develop new ways of thinking and new approaches.
[Correspondent] You met Armenian Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanyan
yesterday. Have you discussed bilateral political issues during the
meeting? Have you brought a message from the Turkish government and
are any developments or meetings expected in the future?
[Tezgor] First, I have to say that I have known Vardan Oskanyan since
1994, from meetings within the [OSCE] Minsk Group. Afterwards, we have
met again in different international events. We have developed a
friendly relationship. I arrived to participate in the funeral
ceremony of the prime minister. Naturally, we met and exchanged
ideas. However, it was not a political talk. We had a friendly
conversation.