Tweet
PBS -
Oct 12 2007
Turkey Lashes Out at U.S. Lawmakers for Armenian 'Genocide' Measure
Turkey criticized U.S. lawmakers and recalled its ambassador after a
House panel voted to approve a measure that recognizes the killings
of Armenians by Ottoman Turks during World War I as "genocide." A
congressman and a former U.S. diplomat explain the issues at hand.
KWAME HOLMAN: In Turkey today, there were street protests decrying a
vote by a committee of the U.S. Congress. That vote labeled as
"genocide" the mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks in the
early 20th century.
Turkish politicians joined demonstrators in Istanbul, denouncing the
vote of American politicians. Erkan Onsel is vice president of
Turkey's Labor Party.
ERKAN ONSEL, Vice President, Turkish Labor Party (through
translator): The United States of America legitimized the Armenian
genocide claim, which has swung over Turkey's head like a stick and
which has posed a threat to Turkey for years. The U.S. has made it
clear once again that it targets Turkey.
KWAME HOLMAN: Turkey's president, Abdullah Gul, also harshly
criticized the non-binding resolution, telling the state-run news
agency Anatolia, "Some politicians in the United States have once
again sacrificed important matters to petty domestic politics,
despite all calls to common sense."
And late today, the Turks recalled their ambassador to Washington.
The Bush administration had lobbied hard against a resolution sure to
upset a key American ally that plays a crucial support role for U.S.
forces in Iraq.
GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States: We all deeply regret
the tragic suffering of the Armenian people that began in 1915, but
this resolution is not the right response to these historic mass
killings.
ROBERT GATES, Secretary of Defense: Seventy percent of all air cargo
going into Iraq goes through Turkey. About a third of the fuel that
they consume goes through Turkey or comes from Turkey.
KWAME HOLMAN: But despite the administration's pressure, the
Democratic-controlled House Foreign Affairs Committee adopted the
resolution by a vote of 27-21.
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D), California: There are those who'd say that,
every time we discuss this resolution in committee, it's an irritant
to our relationship with Turkey. That's the best reason to vote for
it here and on the floor. Let us do this and be done with it. We will
get a few angry words out of Ankara for a few days, and then it's
over.
KWAME HOLMAN: Some Republicans voted for the resolution, but most
opposed it, saying the timing was particularly bad.
REP. DAN BURTON (R), Indiana: The strongest ally in the area, and has
been for over 50 years, is Turkey. And I just don't understand why
we're going to cut our nose off, shoot ourselves in the foot at a
time when we need this ally.
KWAME HOLMAN: Democratic leaders say they will bring the measure
before the full House within weeks, a promise welcomed by the
country's several hundred thousand Armenian-Americans, some of whom
were on hand for the committee vote.
ARTIN MANOUKIAN, Armenian-American: My grandfather was a survivor. I
think it's a day of relief somehow, and I think I'm starting getting
that quest for justice. And I hope that, down the road, we will have
that.
HAIG HOVSEPIAN, Armenian National Committee: We were standing strong
on this historical record. We were not being coaxed into being silent
by somebody who calls themselves an ally of ours.
KWAME HOLMAN: The dispute came amid rising tensions along the
Turkish-Iraqi border, where Turkish troops have been skirmishing with
Kurdish nationalist guerrillas. Within days, President Gul is
expected to ask parliament for authority to cross the Iraqi border
and engage Kurdish guerrillas, known as the PKK.
Mark Parris
Former Ambassador to Turkey
I don't think that anybody who's ever visited Turkey can be in any
doubt that Turks, at all levels, of all levels of education and all
parts of the country, view this kind of a resolution as criticism.
"Not aimed" at modern Turkey
RAY SUAREZ: Margaret Warner takes the story from there.
MARGARET WARNER: And for more on all this, we get two views.
California Democrat Tom Lantos is the chairman of the House Committee
on Foreign Affairs. He voted for the resolution yesterday.
And Mark Parris, a retired career diplomat, served as U.S. ambassador
to Turkey during the Clinton administration. He's now a visiting
fellow at the Brookings Institution and directs their project on
Turkey.
Welcome to you both.
Congressman Lantos, this happened nearly 100 years ago. The House has
passed this same resolution twice, once in the '70s and once in the
'80s. Why do this now? What are you trying to accomplish?
REP. TOM LANTOS (D), California: Well, let's put it in perspective.
Nazi Germany was responsible for the Holocaust, and the Ottoman
Empire was responsible for this genocide. We have the highest respect
for and the best friendship with the democratic modern Germany and
with the democratic and modern Turkey.
This is not a criticism of Turkey. This is not a criticism of the
Turkish people today or of the Turkish government today, and our
Turkish friends know this.
This is one of those events, Margaret, which has to be settled once
and for all: 1.5 million utterly innocent Armenian men, women and
children were slaughtered. And the Turkish government, until now, has
intimidated the Congress of the United States from taking this
measure.
This is not aimed at them, and they know it very well. I'm glad that
the ambassador was called back for consultation. Hopefully, he will
be able to explain to his colleagues that this has nothing to do with
contemporary Turkey.
MARGARET WARNER: Mr. Ambassador, why has Turkey reacted so sharply to
this resolution, which, as the congressman says, was not aimed at
what Turkey is today, modern Turkey, which wasn't even a country
then?
MARK PARRIS, Former U.S. Ambassador to Turkey: I think, inevitably,
criticism is in the eyes of the beholder. And you visited Turkey. You
visited Turkey, as well. I don't think that anybody who's ever
visited Turkey can be in any doubt that Turks, at all levels, of all
levels of education and all parts of the country, view this kind of a
resolution as criticism and, frankly, as interference in their own
responsibility for coming to terms with their own history.
There are a lot of Turks who recognize and, frankly, admit -- and use
words like "genocide" -- that this is a part of their history that
they've got to come to terms with. I don't know any of them who
believe that this will assist that discussion going forward or make
it easier for them to deal with neighboring Armenia.
All of them believe this will be a major setback, because it is
perceived as a major insult to Turkish credibility, honor by a
long-standing ally. So why do they feel this way? They're human
beings; they know something terrible happened.
At some level, I'm sure that they've recognized that that's going to
have to be dealt with. But they don't appreciate third parties coming
in and legislating the means by which they should reconcile
themselves with their own history and with their neighbors.
Tom Lantos
D-Calif
I think they understand that we are allies, we have been NATO
partners for over half a century. And I think it is demeaning to the
Turks to claim that they will take such an irresponsible action.
Fallout from the measure
MARGARET WARNER: All right, let me stay with you and ask you, so what
is the likely fallout, other than recalling the ambassador?
MARK PARRIS: Well, we don't know. And my guess is that the Turkish
government, as we sit here today, doesn't know. If this were
happening in a vacuum, they would look at this issue and their
interests and how to deal with it.
It comes at a time when they're also dealing with another problem
relating to the United States, as your lead-in suggested, the loss of
over 30 citizens in the last two weeks to PKK terrorists that they
believe we haven't done...
MARGARET WARNER: Kurdish.
MARK PARRIS: ... Kurdish terrorists -- our part to deal with in Iraq.
MARGARET WARNER: Defense Secretary Gates, Congressman, raised the
specter that Turkey might yank its support or its approval for the
United States to use an important air base in southern Turkey to
bring in material and supplies into the troops in Iraq.
REP. TOM LANTOS: I have a much higher regard for the intelligence of
our Turkish friends and for their sense of responsibility than to
predict that. I don't think they will do that. I think they
understand that we are allies, we have been NATO partners for over
half a century. And I think it is demeaning to the Turks to claim
that they will take such an irresponsible action.
Let me give you another example, if I may, of just a few weeks ago.
The imperial Japanese government used tens of thousands of young
Asian women and girls as military prostitutes. We passed the
resolution in my committee denouncing this.
This was not aimed at the current democratic government of Japan; it
was aimed at the wartime military government of Japan. And while the
Japanese government made some critical comments briefly, the whole
thing has blown over. This will blow over.
I think it's important, at a time when genocides are going on in
Darfur and elsewhere, not to be an accomplice in sweeping an
important genocide under the rug.
Mark Parris
Former Ambassador to Turkey
I think a lot depends on what happens on the House floor, if it comes
to a vote. And I think one of the reasons that the Turkish initial
response will probably be restrained is that they want to see what
will happen there.
Waiting on a House floor vote
MARGARET WARNER: Mr. Ambassador, do you think this will blow over in
Turkey?
MARK PARRIS: I'd be surprised. I think a lot depends on what happens
on the House floor, if it comes to a vote. And I think one of the
reasons that the Turkish initial response will probably be restrained
is that they want to see what will happen there. And they wanted to
decide, frankly, what they're going to do about this PKK problem on
their border.
MARGARET WARNER: Is the government under any pressure to do more?
What is the feeling among the Turkish sort of body politic about the
cooperation that Turkey is giving the United States in the Iraq war?
MARK PARRIS: Well, there's a sense that they are playing an important
role. I think the fact is that more Turks have died in Iraq than any
other nationality, because their truck drivers are an important part
of the supply effort there. And our use of their facilities in
Incirlik and the port in Adana to bring in heavy transport is
critical.
There is, therefore, a very strong expectation among the Turkish
public that this cannot be allowed simply to blow over. They're
expecting their leadership to do something to show that third
countries' legislatures cannot interfere in their history.
MARGARET WARNER: So if this doesn't blow over, are you saying,
Congressman, that this nonetheless was worth the risk?
REP. TOM LANTOS: One of the worst things that happened to the United
States in recent years has been the plummeting globally of our moral
authority. This is a significant step in restoring the moral
authority of U.S. foreign policy.
U.S. foreign policy was strong when it was based on a sound
foundation of a moral authority. It's Abu Ghraib and similar episodes
which have diminished our standing globally. And the international
community is not critical of the fact that the United States calls a
genocide a genocide.
Tom Lantos
D-Calif
We shall explain in exquisite detail that we consider Turkey our
friend, our democratic ally, and we expect to be that for generations
to come. This is an ugly chapter in Turkish history which the House
Foreign Affairs Committee described as such.
Pro-contemporary Turkey resolution
MARGARET WARNER: So if the Turkish government makes clear -- as the
ambassador seems to be suggesting -- that a vote in the full House
could really put the cooperation at risk, it sounds like you would
not recommend holding back?
REP. TOM LANTOS: Well, let me say one other thing, if I may. Next
week, I am bringing to the committee a very strong pro-contemporary
Turkey resolution. We shall explain in exquisite detail that we
consider Turkey our friend, our democratic ally, and we expect to be
that for generations to come. This is an ugly chapter in Turkish
history which the House Foreign Affairs Committee described as such.
MARGARET WARNER: Would that allay Turkish concerns?
MARK PARRIS: With due respect to the congressman who I've known for a
long time, it simply won't wash. The Turks -- the fine distinctions
here are going to be totally lost on the Turkish general population
and their politicians and the military. They will view this as part
of a pattern of American ignoring of Turkish interests, including the
problem in northern Iraq, which is resulting in killing of Turkish
citizens and soldiers as we speak today.
MARGARET WARNER: So are you saying -- briefly, are you saying that a
vote in the full House, that's the red line for Turkey's government?
MARK PARRIS: You can see graduated responses up to a vote in the
House to indicate that the Turks are serious about this. I think a
vote in the House will precipitate something that the Turkish
political leadership can take to its population and say, "We've shown
we're serious; honor is served."
MARGARET WARNER: Former Ambassador Mark Parris, Congressman Tom
Lantos, thank you.
REP. TOM LANTOS: It's a pleasure.
Oct 12 2007
Turkey Lashes Out at U.S. Lawmakers for Armenian 'Genocide' Measure
Turkey criticized U.S. lawmakers and recalled its ambassador after a
House panel voted to approve a measure that recognizes the killings
of Armenians by Ottoman Turks during World War I as "genocide." A
congressman and a former U.S. diplomat explain the issues at hand.
KWAME HOLMAN: In Turkey today, there were street protests decrying a
vote by a committee of the U.S. Congress. That vote labeled as
"genocide" the mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks in the
early 20th century.
Turkish politicians joined demonstrators in Istanbul, denouncing the
vote of American politicians. Erkan Onsel is vice president of
Turkey's Labor Party.
ERKAN ONSEL, Vice President, Turkish Labor Party (through
translator): The United States of America legitimized the Armenian
genocide claim, which has swung over Turkey's head like a stick and
which has posed a threat to Turkey for years. The U.S. has made it
clear once again that it targets Turkey.
KWAME HOLMAN: Turkey's president, Abdullah Gul, also harshly
criticized the non-binding resolution, telling the state-run news
agency Anatolia, "Some politicians in the United States have once
again sacrificed important matters to petty domestic politics,
despite all calls to common sense."
And late today, the Turks recalled their ambassador to Washington.
The Bush administration had lobbied hard against a resolution sure to
upset a key American ally that plays a crucial support role for U.S.
forces in Iraq.
GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States: We all deeply regret
the tragic suffering of the Armenian people that began in 1915, but
this resolution is not the right response to these historic mass
killings.
ROBERT GATES, Secretary of Defense: Seventy percent of all air cargo
going into Iraq goes through Turkey. About a third of the fuel that
they consume goes through Turkey or comes from Turkey.
KWAME HOLMAN: But despite the administration's pressure, the
Democratic-controlled House Foreign Affairs Committee adopted the
resolution by a vote of 27-21.
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D), California: There are those who'd say that,
every time we discuss this resolution in committee, it's an irritant
to our relationship with Turkey. That's the best reason to vote for
it here and on the floor. Let us do this and be done with it. We will
get a few angry words out of Ankara for a few days, and then it's
over.
KWAME HOLMAN: Some Republicans voted for the resolution, but most
opposed it, saying the timing was particularly bad.
REP. DAN BURTON (R), Indiana: The strongest ally in the area, and has
been for over 50 years, is Turkey. And I just don't understand why
we're going to cut our nose off, shoot ourselves in the foot at a
time when we need this ally.
KWAME HOLMAN: Democratic leaders say they will bring the measure
before the full House within weeks, a promise welcomed by the
country's several hundred thousand Armenian-Americans, some of whom
were on hand for the committee vote.
ARTIN MANOUKIAN, Armenian-American: My grandfather was a survivor. I
think it's a day of relief somehow, and I think I'm starting getting
that quest for justice. And I hope that, down the road, we will have
that.
HAIG HOVSEPIAN, Armenian National Committee: We were standing strong
on this historical record. We were not being coaxed into being silent
by somebody who calls themselves an ally of ours.
KWAME HOLMAN: The dispute came amid rising tensions along the
Turkish-Iraqi border, where Turkish troops have been skirmishing with
Kurdish nationalist guerrillas. Within days, President Gul is
expected to ask parliament for authority to cross the Iraqi border
and engage Kurdish guerrillas, known as the PKK.
Mark Parris
Former Ambassador to Turkey
I don't think that anybody who's ever visited Turkey can be in any
doubt that Turks, at all levels, of all levels of education and all
parts of the country, view this kind of a resolution as criticism.
"Not aimed" at modern Turkey
RAY SUAREZ: Margaret Warner takes the story from there.
MARGARET WARNER: And for more on all this, we get two views.
California Democrat Tom Lantos is the chairman of the House Committee
on Foreign Affairs. He voted for the resolution yesterday.
And Mark Parris, a retired career diplomat, served as U.S. ambassador
to Turkey during the Clinton administration. He's now a visiting
fellow at the Brookings Institution and directs their project on
Turkey.
Welcome to you both.
Congressman Lantos, this happened nearly 100 years ago. The House has
passed this same resolution twice, once in the '70s and once in the
'80s. Why do this now? What are you trying to accomplish?
REP. TOM LANTOS (D), California: Well, let's put it in perspective.
Nazi Germany was responsible for the Holocaust, and the Ottoman
Empire was responsible for this genocide. We have the highest respect
for and the best friendship with the democratic modern Germany and
with the democratic and modern Turkey.
This is not a criticism of Turkey. This is not a criticism of the
Turkish people today or of the Turkish government today, and our
Turkish friends know this.
This is one of those events, Margaret, which has to be settled once
and for all: 1.5 million utterly innocent Armenian men, women and
children were slaughtered. And the Turkish government, until now, has
intimidated the Congress of the United States from taking this
measure.
This is not aimed at them, and they know it very well. I'm glad that
the ambassador was called back for consultation. Hopefully, he will
be able to explain to his colleagues that this has nothing to do with
contemporary Turkey.
MARGARET WARNER: Mr. Ambassador, why has Turkey reacted so sharply to
this resolution, which, as the congressman says, was not aimed at
what Turkey is today, modern Turkey, which wasn't even a country
then?
MARK PARRIS, Former U.S. Ambassador to Turkey: I think, inevitably,
criticism is in the eyes of the beholder. And you visited Turkey. You
visited Turkey, as well. I don't think that anybody who's ever
visited Turkey can be in any doubt that Turks, at all levels, of all
levels of education and all parts of the country, view this kind of a
resolution as criticism and, frankly, as interference in their own
responsibility for coming to terms with their own history.
There are a lot of Turks who recognize and, frankly, admit -- and use
words like "genocide" -- that this is a part of their history that
they've got to come to terms with. I don't know any of them who
believe that this will assist that discussion going forward or make
it easier for them to deal with neighboring Armenia.
All of them believe this will be a major setback, because it is
perceived as a major insult to Turkish credibility, honor by a
long-standing ally. So why do they feel this way? They're human
beings; they know something terrible happened.
At some level, I'm sure that they've recognized that that's going to
have to be dealt with. But they don't appreciate third parties coming
in and legislating the means by which they should reconcile
themselves with their own history and with their neighbors.
Tom Lantos
D-Calif
I think they understand that we are allies, we have been NATO
partners for over half a century. And I think it is demeaning to the
Turks to claim that they will take such an irresponsible action.
Fallout from the measure
MARGARET WARNER: All right, let me stay with you and ask you, so what
is the likely fallout, other than recalling the ambassador?
MARK PARRIS: Well, we don't know. And my guess is that the Turkish
government, as we sit here today, doesn't know. If this were
happening in a vacuum, they would look at this issue and their
interests and how to deal with it.
It comes at a time when they're also dealing with another problem
relating to the United States, as your lead-in suggested, the loss of
over 30 citizens in the last two weeks to PKK terrorists that they
believe we haven't done...
MARGARET WARNER: Kurdish.
MARK PARRIS: ... Kurdish terrorists -- our part to deal with in Iraq.
MARGARET WARNER: Defense Secretary Gates, Congressman, raised the
specter that Turkey might yank its support or its approval for the
United States to use an important air base in southern Turkey to
bring in material and supplies into the troops in Iraq.
REP. TOM LANTOS: I have a much higher regard for the intelligence of
our Turkish friends and for their sense of responsibility than to
predict that. I don't think they will do that. I think they
understand that we are allies, we have been NATO partners for over
half a century. And I think it is demeaning to the Turks to claim
that they will take such an irresponsible action.
Let me give you another example, if I may, of just a few weeks ago.
The imperial Japanese government used tens of thousands of young
Asian women and girls as military prostitutes. We passed the
resolution in my committee denouncing this.
This was not aimed at the current democratic government of Japan; it
was aimed at the wartime military government of Japan. And while the
Japanese government made some critical comments briefly, the whole
thing has blown over. This will blow over.
I think it's important, at a time when genocides are going on in
Darfur and elsewhere, not to be an accomplice in sweeping an
important genocide under the rug.
Mark Parris
Former Ambassador to Turkey
I think a lot depends on what happens on the House floor, if it comes
to a vote. And I think one of the reasons that the Turkish initial
response will probably be restrained is that they want to see what
will happen there.
Waiting on a House floor vote
MARGARET WARNER: Mr. Ambassador, do you think this will blow over in
Turkey?
MARK PARRIS: I'd be surprised. I think a lot depends on what happens
on the House floor, if it comes to a vote. And I think one of the
reasons that the Turkish initial response will probably be restrained
is that they want to see what will happen there. And they wanted to
decide, frankly, what they're going to do about this PKK problem on
their border.
MARGARET WARNER: Is the government under any pressure to do more?
What is the feeling among the Turkish sort of body politic about the
cooperation that Turkey is giving the United States in the Iraq war?
MARK PARRIS: Well, there's a sense that they are playing an important
role. I think the fact is that more Turks have died in Iraq than any
other nationality, because their truck drivers are an important part
of the supply effort there. And our use of their facilities in
Incirlik and the port in Adana to bring in heavy transport is
critical.
There is, therefore, a very strong expectation among the Turkish
public that this cannot be allowed simply to blow over. They're
expecting their leadership to do something to show that third
countries' legislatures cannot interfere in their history.
MARGARET WARNER: So if this doesn't blow over, are you saying,
Congressman, that this nonetheless was worth the risk?
REP. TOM LANTOS: One of the worst things that happened to the United
States in recent years has been the plummeting globally of our moral
authority. This is a significant step in restoring the moral
authority of U.S. foreign policy.
U.S. foreign policy was strong when it was based on a sound
foundation of a moral authority. It's Abu Ghraib and similar episodes
which have diminished our standing globally. And the international
community is not critical of the fact that the United States calls a
genocide a genocide.
Tom Lantos
D-Calif
We shall explain in exquisite detail that we consider Turkey our
friend, our democratic ally, and we expect to be that for generations
to come. This is an ugly chapter in Turkish history which the House
Foreign Affairs Committee described as such.
Pro-contemporary Turkey resolution
MARGARET WARNER: So if the Turkish government makes clear -- as the
ambassador seems to be suggesting -- that a vote in the full House
could really put the cooperation at risk, it sounds like you would
not recommend holding back?
REP. TOM LANTOS: Well, let me say one other thing, if I may. Next
week, I am bringing to the committee a very strong pro-contemporary
Turkey resolution. We shall explain in exquisite detail that we
consider Turkey our friend, our democratic ally, and we expect to be
that for generations to come. This is an ugly chapter in Turkish
history which the House Foreign Affairs Committee described as such.
MARGARET WARNER: Would that allay Turkish concerns?
MARK PARRIS: With due respect to the congressman who I've known for a
long time, it simply won't wash. The Turks -- the fine distinctions
here are going to be totally lost on the Turkish general population
and their politicians and the military. They will view this as part
of a pattern of American ignoring of Turkish interests, including the
problem in northern Iraq, which is resulting in killing of Turkish
citizens and soldiers as we speak today.
MARGARET WARNER: So are you saying -- briefly, are you saying that a
vote in the full House, that's the red line for Turkey's government?
MARK PARRIS: You can see graduated responses up to a vote in the
House to indicate that the Turks are serious about this. I think a
vote in the House will precipitate something that the Turkish
political leadership can take to its population and say, "We've shown
we're serious; honor is served."
MARGARET WARNER: Former Ambassador Mark Parris, Congressman Tom
Lantos, thank you.
REP. TOM LANTOS: It's a pleasure.