Siranuysh Papyan

Story from News:
Published: 18:04:59 - 30/07/2012

Interview with Manvel Sargsyan, ACNIS director

Mr. Sargsyan, only a few months are left till the presidential election
but there seems to be no interest in the elections. Why?

Either the political forces have nothing to say, or the proposed
approaches are not interesting. Today there is an internal dispute in
the opposition on the direction declared and followed by the ANC. This
dispute has acquires such expressions that one cannot understand
whether it serves the decaying process or is the result of the
decaying process. Generally, it is very difficult to understand what
is happening as long as one hears people's opinion on the conducted
police some of which seem to be outside the ANC but others declare
themselves part of the ANC and say the same. This declared direction
is the direction of relying on Tsarukyan's party. The former or
maybe present opposition force offers some ways of achieving change
but this appearance is not convincing, and if it is not convincing,
people become indifferent.

However, the idea of a joint opposition candidate is so abstract that
nobody wants to touch upon it unless there is concreteness. After
all, there must a proposal for people to discuss. Besides, the idea
of change through elections was attached after the parliamentary
elections. Convincing expressions, the only form, the only truth does
not convince even those people who declared that. I can see people
scare the public that revolution is death and now they state calmly
this is a lie, no elections, only revolution. I don't think these
people are honest, simply these people have understood that these
statements are void. There is an ideological vacuum, false beliefs
have been revealed for people with with these beliefs. The lack of
ideology explains the indifference.

What is the reason of this ideological bankruptcy of the past 20
years? There is an opinion that we must develop procedures. We knew
what we wanted but did not know how to get it.

Any activity for political issues must produce a result. If we put
forth a problem, independent from its scope, we must solve it, if you
do not ever solve it, it means, on the one hand, that you are unable
to do that, your mentality, your experience are not enough for the
solution of the problems, on the other hand, people start filling
their heads with false ideas that no issue can be resolved. Mainly
those people uphold it who are unable to solve problems. When you put
forth an issue and are unable to resolve it, then you start preaching
the public that it did not resolve because one cannot solve anything in
Armenia. This is expansion of false ideas. Over 20 years no problem put
forth by the political forces has been solve, the political forces have
always found an excuse for why it was not resolved and no political
force claimed responsible. I remember Levon Ter-Petrosyan say in
one of the rallies that he cannot resolve a problem alone. This is
interesting this something like this was uttered in Armenia but it was
not convincing why he could not because later different interpretations
came that "we need several hundred thousand people".

No convincing explanation was given which weakens the society,
people are made believe that 500,000 will never get together, and
these problems will never be resolved. We must understand that if the
problems are put forth, solutions must be found, if no solutions are
found, the society finds itself in such a situation. Some of them
leave in despair, others reconcile with this state, including the
political forces, and the only hope is the other part of the society
which does not accept all these things and tries to put forth goals,
figure out the objectives and find solutions. This small part of the
society is in an interesting state because the subdued part sheds its
jealousy and wickedness on the small percent, teaches them that they
are wrong and disturb them.

Finally, who is the cause of this situation? This is one of the most
important issues, and one must try to find the reasons, see why people
are in this situation.

First of all, it is related to the category of lie. In the past 20
years people and especially the political forces have developed a
growing belief in the lie, it is a very powerful political mechanism,
it is justified that lie mobilizes, lie helps solve a lot of problems.

Now I can see the crisis of the policy of lie. There are other reasons
as well. There are populist approaches which persisted over the past
20 years, people believed that this is the way of solving issues.

Those were wrong beliefs which led to this crush, people cannot
believe but try to keep from other perceptions. Hence, another surge
of lie comes, a belief that lie can justify your situation. People
must understand why man constantly appears in lie, why reality is
falsified all the time, success is denied. There is success, people
say there is nothing like this, it is a lie because for decades this
situation was part of private life, they live like this all their
life and cannot say that they lived all their life in a wrong way.

But, Mr. Sargsyan, there is a civil sector which is not living in a
false reality. Is it possible to have this sector self-organize and
create a new reality? What are the ways out?

Since civil initiatives are something new, it is natural that the
society living in the way I described tries to understand what this is,
and still a lot of things are not clear. When we consider the political
scramble in Armenia, we must speak about the race of parties. Beginning
from the Armenian National Movement, all the parties led an organized
and controlled race which was usually in the pre- and post-election
periods. This was the philosophy of the struggle.

We had a civil struggle, the Karabakh movement but we did not have
one in the past 20 years. The civil movement is not the duplication of
the party struggle, they are so different that this time they can be
antagonists. We can see that now the parties are mainly jealous and
wicked because the citizens are the civil struggle. Classic civil
struggle is for an urgent issue, the problem is put forth for the
society, it takes part, is interested, pursues the solution of the
problem, this problem can be change of the government, the citizens
put forth the issue, come together, solve it and go home. This is
the logic of the civil struggle which the present parties cannot
understand. Since we lacked social consciousness for years, people
were told that only the parties are entitled to solve the problems,
and nobody has the right to solve them. And it became a belief
for the parties. But the parties can never solve it because they
are political institutions whose functions are defined by law. The
parties do not need to put forth the issue of change of government,
the citizens must come together and decide whether it is urgent or not,
and we still do not have this certainty.

It is often asked whether the civil initiatives will transform to
political forces.

These are questions which have the right to be raised. It comes
from the understanding of the problems that the parties may be
the problem which do not have the necessary qualities to be able
to resolve systemic issues. The parties in Armenia operate in a
climate where they can never do anything. They go beyond their their
functions and thus become weak, remaining within their competencies
they cannot solve any issue because the electoral mechanism is not
operational, if there is no competition among parties, the activity
of parties becomes meaningless. Therefore they try to walk into the
civil field, assume the functions of citizens and solve issues but
they are not successful because in their consciousness the struggle
is for power. There is not a matter of coming to power for any
civil initiative which pursues change of the system therefore they
are powerful. As soon as the civil movement pursues power, it is
annihilated, and never succeeds, you must remove this issue to be
able to resolve a distinct issue. There was something similar in 2008
because it was impossible to do a systemic change by bringing a group
to power. If politics were based on truth and not lie, we could have
avoided those mistakes but it was said that by bringing some people
to power a systemic issue would be solved. It was a barefaced lie
which could not last long and now we can see the decay.

A lot of people see the decay of the criminal and oligarchic pyramid.

Is the pyramid in crisis?

We must ask the question what will replace it when it decays.

Otherwise it may decay for one hundred years. In the criminal world,
if there is a problem, and the system of agreements does not work,
they will make a new agreement, and then the same thing will repeat on
and on. Now it is complicated by the civil activism. The government,
as well as the political forces, is jealous and full of hatred because
they feel the danger. See what severe punishment the youths of the
ANC got. This is the hatred of the government. Remember how the young
people in Mashtots Park were treated for a single tent. The system
can see young people who disobey it. It indicates that the system
feels the change in the country but issues are not solves. Listen
how the oligarchs are speaking, their false excuse me-s. The society
has put them in this situation, and this might be the beginning,
and tomorrow the society may speak in a different language, and they
have understood that other masters are coming who dictate their will.

Mr. Sargsyan, do you agree with Aghasi Tadevosyan that our goal must
not be removal of the oligarchy?

We must understand that this system is genetically linked with the
consciousness and development of the society. The oligarchy which was
established and becomes stronger is directly linked with the quality
of the society. This phenomenon will disappear as soon as we change our
quality. We must treat the sick body. Look how everything is perverted
in the political struggle when a person does not hope that he or she
can put forth an issue and solve it. The brand "Serzhik leave" is a
universal almighty device. When a person has nothing to say, it can
use it and speak for an hour, these are the stages of development of
new false ideas which weaken every movement and complicate the ways
f solving problems.