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Moscow News (Russia)
November 10, 2004
NINOO BURDZHANADZE CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC ON PROSPECTS FOR
GEORGIAN-RUSSIAN RELATIONS
By Yury Vasilyev The Moscow News
On an official visit to Moscow, Georgian Parliament Speaker Nino
Burdzhanadze offered Russia friendship - but only on certain terms
Russian-Georgian relations have seen a breakthrough - of sorts. Nino
Burdzhanadze, speaker of the Georgian parliament, finally made it to
Moscow. The on again, off again dialogue between Moscow and Tbilisi
has been dragging on for many months; according to the Georgian side,
this is through no fault of its own. Talks have oficially resumed,
but this does not make either side particularly happy.
"What is going on in Russian-Georgian relations oftentimes does not
fit into the bounds of international law," says Nino Burdzhanadze,
who holds a degree in international law from the Moscow State
University. "But I believe that sooner or later we will manage to
bring these relations back to normal. It would be preferable if this
happened sooner rather than later, of course."
Why has the relationship not worked out?
I dare say that I have more complaints to make against Russia than
against Georgia. Although of course I can also see shortfalls on our
side. Over the past 10 years our relations have been steadily
deteriorating to the point where it is very difficult to turn the
situation around even if we try. Yet if there is no will...
Not so long ago our relations were discussed at the PACE. On the
Georgian side there was Speaker Burdzhanadze, while the Russian side
was represented by Konstantin Kosachev, head of the RF State Duma
Foreign Relations Committee. Were you not irked by this disparity in
status?
Not at all. I am quite happy dealing with Mr. Kosachev. He is an
intelligent person who has a good understanding of this set of
problems. My main purpose at the time was not to challenge our
Russian counterparts to a duel, to stir debate, but only to inform
our European colleagues about the outstanding problems in
Russian-Georgian relations.
Did Russia pointedly refuse to participate in a two-way discussion?
Not exactly. It was simply that in response to all of our proposals
for a meeting we received discreet indications to the effect that "it
would be better to put off your visit." But then after Strasbourg, as
you can see, I got an opportunity to come to Moscow, and I very much
hope that Mr. Gryzlov (speaker of the RF State Duma. - Ed.) will soon
visit Tbilisi. In Moscow we had a productive discussion on all
issues, and not only with him.
Specifically what issues?
The most sensitive ones, at least as far as we are concerned. Very
often, despite all of President Putin's statements about Russia's
respect for Georgia's territorial integrity, this is not what we are
seeing in reality. For example, a railway link has been reopened
between Sukhumi (the capital of Abkhazia. - Ed.) and Moscow, but the
Russian side did not bother to coordinate the move with Tbilisi. They
did not even deign to inform us.
In other words, it would have been enough if Moscow duly notified
you?
It would certainly not have been enough, but at least that would have
been civil. But when you are not even asked whether trains may cross
your state borders - moreover, they tried to pull a fast one on us
(the rail link was purportedly reopened by some commercial
structures) - it is very difficult to talk. I realize that each side
has its own interests to look after. But when I am told here that
"the residents of Abkhazia and South Ossetia are socially
disadvantaged and so we granted them RF citizenship," I think of the
300,000 Georgian refugees from Abkhazia whose situation is just as
bad, yet they cannot even go to their motherland to visit the graves
of their parents or children.
Do you realize that the citizenship situation is practically
irreversible?
But it was granted unlawfully.
The procedure falls within the jurisdiction of the Russian
authorities. They may grant or refuse citizenship at their
discretion.
That's just how it was done...
A new generation is growing up in Russia that does not see Georgia as
a friend but, rather, as an enemy. We are witnessing a similar
pattern among the Georgian youth with regard to Russia. After the
horrible tragedy in Beslan - when we empathized with you- Georgia
received yet another slap on the face from Moscow: Foreign Minister
Lavrov all but put the blame for Beslan on Georgia. True, later the
situation was rectified, but it hurts all the same. And that was the
time when the railway line to Sukhumi was reopened. The victims of
Beslan had not as yet been buried, but a brass band was playing in
the Abkhaz capital with people celebrating the departure of the first
train to Moscow. Over the past 10 years, more than 1,500 civilians
have been killed and some 6,000 houses burned in Abkhazia's
ethnic-Georgian district of Gali. Against this backdrop, I am told in
the course of negotiations in Moscow: "Admit that the Chechens are
terrorists but the Abkhaz are not." Well, yes, if you think of bomb
attacks on residential buildings and the seizure of a school, you
might agree with this. But then the relatives of those killed in the
Gali district have their own vision of such things.
I feel extremely uncomfortable with the fact that I have to assure
some people in Moscow that we really sympathized with Russia and that
I even have to provide evidence of this sympathy. But look at our
relations with the United States: America always stood by us, coming
through whenever Georgia needed support and even direct assistance,
and it demanded nothing in return for that.
Here is just one example. The return of the Meskhetian Turks to their
native land in Georgia was one precondition for Georgia's
participation in Coun-cil of Europe (CE) structures. The Americans,
however, made an unprecedented move by relocating thousands of ethnic
Turks living in Krasnodar Krai to the United States and granting them
residence permits. Thus the "CE problem" was taken care of. How is
the Kremlin supposed to react to this?
You oversimplify the situation. But even if everything is the way you
say it is, is this bad? Yes, we have obligations to the Meskhetian
Turks. But, first, the deadline is 2014. Second, we have never
refused to help the repatriation of these people. Yet today ethnic
Armenians live in this area. Returning the Turks there means
provoking a massacre. Third, if Russia wants to be on friendly terms
with us, it should realize that with 300,000 refugees from Abkhazia,
Georgia is not in a position to admit thousands of Meskhetian Turks
in addition to this. So what's wrong about America's desire to help
our people?
Nothing's wrong. The only question is how America's political
interest in Georgia - which comes through not only in the Meskhetian
problem - is going to turn out for Russia.
Let's face it: This is not a case of getting something for nothing.
But the United States is helping us build a normal democratic state,
not creating more problems for us. What stops you, for instance, from
facilitating the course of democracy in Georgia? But no, many people
in Russia want to see it as a divided country, easily controlled by
Moscow. So who would you make friends with if you were in our shoes?
Nonetheless, I would like to stress once again: We still want to be
friendly with Russia.
Do you see a way out of the Abkhaz conundrum?
Believe me, the Abkhaz people will realize sooner or later that it is
better to live in peace with Georgia - just as we had lived for
hundreds of years until the Russian empire moved into Abkhazia. What
happened in the presidential election (a pro-Russian candidate,
Khadzhimba, failed to win. - Ed.) is a slap in the face for the
Russian authorities. They were sure that they could control
everything in this land, but the people of Abkhazia showed that this
is not quite so. Thank God for this: At last, they understood what is
good for the Abkhaz people. At times the situation becomes simply
ridiculous: On the one hand, the Abkhaz authorities show us that they
are fighting for independence and international recognition. On the
other, they ask the State Duma to admit Abkhazia to the Russian
Federation. This also holds true for South Ossetia: Separatist
leaders talk about sovereignty, but a point of entry to Tskhinvali
(the capital of South Ossetia. - Ed.) is adorned with a huge picture
of V.V. Putin bearing the inscription "Putin - Our President." I
greatly respect him, but independence and "Putin Our President" are
things that do not go very well together.
Nevertheless, Georgia declares its readiness to open its
privatization market to Russian business. What are you going to give
and what do you demand in return?
We are not giving anything just like that - this is a matter of
negotiations. We invited Russian businessmen, indicating that we
would be happy to see investment capital. Georgia is ready to open
itself up to economic cooperation, but on a mutually beneficial
basis. We must be sure that Russia's presence in the Georgian economy
will not work against our national interests.
Are you happy with the RAO UES Unified Energy System's presence in
the energy sector?
Mr. Chubais keeps his promises, in particular the promise to supply
power to Georgia. If the relations between our two countries are
built on such a pragmatic and constructive foundation, I am confident
that we will be able to avoid many problems.MN
FACT BOX
Burdzhanadze, Nino Anzorovna, was born on July 16, 1964; in 1981,
finished A. Tsereteli Secondary School #2 in the city of Kutaisi with
a gold medal, entering the Tbilisi I. Dzhavakhishvili University
School of Law in the same year; in 1986, she was admitted to the
graduate school at the Moscow State University (MGU) International
Law Department, in 1990 defending a Cand.Sc. dissertation, titled
Problems of International Organizations and International Maritime
Law; from 1991, associate professor at the Tbilisi University
International Law and International Relations Department; author of
approximately 20 academic papers, published in Georgian, Russian, and
English; since 1995, an elected member of the Georgian parliament;
from 1998, chairperson of the parliamentary Committee on
Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Law Enforcement; from 2000, head
of the parliamentary Foreign Relations Committee.
In November 2001, Nino Burdzhanadze was elected speaker of the
Georgian parliament. On November 22, 2003, following Eduard
Shevardnadze's resignation, she was acting president, running the
country until a new head of state was elected (January 26, 2004),
thereupon resuming her functions as speaker of parliament.
From: Emil Lazarian | Ararat NewsPress
November 10, 2004
NINOO BURDZHANADZE CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC ON PROSPECTS FOR
GEORGIAN-RUSSIAN RELATIONS
By Yury Vasilyev The Moscow News
On an official visit to Moscow, Georgian Parliament Speaker Nino
Burdzhanadze offered Russia friendship - but only on certain terms
Russian-Georgian relations have seen a breakthrough - of sorts. Nino
Burdzhanadze, speaker of the Georgian parliament, finally made it to
Moscow. The on again, off again dialogue between Moscow and Tbilisi
has been dragging on for many months; according to the Georgian side,
this is through no fault of its own. Talks have oficially resumed,
but this does not make either side particularly happy.
"What is going on in Russian-Georgian relations oftentimes does not
fit into the bounds of international law," says Nino Burdzhanadze,
who holds a degree in international law from the Moscow State
University. "But I believe that sooner or later we will manage to
bring these relations back to normal. It would be preferable if this
happened sooner rather than later, of course."
Why has the relationship not worked out?
I dare say that I have more complaints to make against Russia than
against Georgia. Although of course I can also see shortfalls on our
side. Over the past 10 years our relations have been steadily
deteriorating to the point where it is very difficult to turn the
situation around even if we try. Yet if there is no will...
Not so long ago our relations were discussed at the PACE. On the
Georgian side there was Speaker Burdzhanadze, while the Russian side
was represented by Konstantin Kosachev, head of the RF State Duma
Foreign Relations Committee. Were you not irked by this disparity in
status?
Not at all. I am quite happy dealing with Mr. Kosachev. He is an
intelligent person who has a good understanding of this set of
problems. My main purpose at the time was not to challenge our
Russian counterparts to a duel, to stir debate, but only to inform
our European colleagues about the outstanding problems in
Russian-Georgian relations.
Did Russia pointedly refuse to participate in a two-way discussion?
Not exactly. It was simply that in response to all of our proposals
for a meeting we received discreet indications to the effect that "it
would be better to put off your visit." But then after Strasbourg, as
you can see, I got an opportunity to come to Moscow, and I very much
hope that Mr. Gryzlov (speaker of the RF State Duma. - Ed.) will soon
visit Tbilisi. In Moscow we had a productive discussion on all
issues, and not only with him.
Specifically what issues?
The most sensitive ones, at least as far as we are concerned. Very
often, despite all of President Putin's statements about Russia's
respect for Georgia's territorial integrity, this is not what we are
seeing in reality. For example, a railway link has been reopened
between Sukhumi (the capital of Abkhazia. - Ed.) and Moscow, but the
Russian side did not bother to coordinate the move with Tbilisi. They
did not even deign to inform us.
In other words, it would have been enough if Moscow duly notified
you?
It would certainly not have been enough, but at least that would have
been civil. But when you are not even asked whether trains may cross
your state borders - moreover, they tried to pull a fast one on us
(the rail link was purportedly reopened by some commercial
structures) - it is very difficult to talk. I realize that each side
has its own interests to look after. But when I am told here that
"the residents of Abkhazia and South Ossetia are socially
disadvantaged and so we granted them RF citizenship," I think of the
300,000 Georgian refugees from Abkhazia whose situation is just as
bad, yet they cannot even go to their motherland to visit the graves
of their parents or children.
Do you realize that the citizenship situation is practically
irreversible?
But it was granted unlawfully.
The procedure falls within the jurisdiction of the Russian
authorities. They may grant or refuse citizenship at their
discretion.
That's just how it was done...
A new generation is growing up in Russia that does not see Georgia as
a friend but, rather, as an enemy. We are witnessing a similar
pattern among the Georgian youth with regard to Russia. After the
horrible tragedy in Beslan - when we empathized with you- Georgia
received yet another slap on the face from Moscow: Foreign Minister
Lavrov all but put the blame for Beslan on Georgia. True, later the
situation was rectified, but it hurts all the same. And that was the
time when the railway line to Sukhumi was reopened. The victims of
Beslan had not as yet been buried, but a brass band was playing in
the Abkhaz capital with people celebrating the departure of the first
train to Moscow. Over the past 10 years, more than 1,500 civilians
have been killed and some 6,000 houses burned in Abkhazia's
ethnic-Georgian district of Gali. Against this backdrop, I am told in
the course of negotiations in Moscow: "Admit that the Chechens are
terrorists but the Abkhaz are not." Well, yes, if you think of bomb
attacks on residential buildings and the seizure of a school, you
might agree with this. But then the relatives of those killed in the
Gali district have their own vision of such things.
I feel extremely uncomfortable with the fact that I have to assure
some people in Moscow that we really sympathized with Russia and that
I even have to provide evidence of this sympathy. But look at our
relations with the United States: America always stood by us, coming
through whenever Georgia needed support and even direct assistance,
and it demanded nothing in return for that.
Here is just one example. The return of the Meskhetian Turks to their
native land in Georgia was one precondition for Georgia's
participation in Coun-cil of Europe (CE) structures. The Americans,
however, made an unprecedented move by relocating thousands of ethnic
Turks living in Krasnodar Krai to the United States and granting them
residence permits. Thus the "CE problem" was taken care of. How is
the Kremlin supposed to react to this?
You oversimplify the situation. But even if everything is the way you
say it is, is this bad? Yes, we have obligations to the Meskhetian
Turks. But, first, the deadline is 2014. Second, we have never
refused to help the repatriation of these people. Yet today ethnic
Armenians live in this area. Returning the Turks there means
provoking a massacre. Third, if Russia wants to be on friendly terms
with us, it should realize that with 300,000 refugees from Abkhazia,
Georgia is not in a position to admit thousands of Meskhetian Turks
in addition to this. So what's wrong about America's desire to help
our people?
Nothing's wrong. The only question is how America's political
interest in Georgia - which comes through not only in the Meskhetian
problem - is going to turn out for Russia.
Let's face it: This is not a case of getting something for nothing.
But the United States is helping us build a normal democratic state,
not creating more problems for us. What stops you, for instance, from
facilitating the course of democracy in Georgia? But no, many people
in Russia want to see it as a divided country, easily controlled by
Moscow. So who would you make friends with if you were in our shoes?
Nonetheless, I would like to stress once again: We still want to be
friendly with Russia.
Do you see a way out of the Abkhaz conundrum?
Believe me, the Abkhaz people will realize sooner or later that it is
better to live in peace with Georgia - just as we had lived for
hundreds of years until the Russian empire moved into Abkhazia. What
happened in the presidential election (a pro-Russian candidate,
Khadzhimba, failed to win. - Ed.) is a slap in the face for the
Russian authorities. They were sure that they could control
everything in this land, but the people of Abkhazia showed that this
is not quite so. Thank God for this: At last, they understood what is
good for the Abkhaz people. At times the situation becomes simply
ridiculous: On the one hand, the Abkhaz authorities show us that they
are fighting for independence and international recognition. On the
other, they ask the State Duma to admit Abkhazia to the Russian
Federation. This also holds true for South Ossetia: Separatist
leaders talk about sovereignty, but a point of entry to Tskhinvali
(the capital of South Ossetia. - Ed.) is adorned with a huge picture
of V.V. Putin bearing the inscription "Putin - Our President." I
greatly respect him, but independence and "Putin Our President" are
things that do not go very well together.
Nevertheless, Georgia declares its readiness to open its
privatization market to Russian business. What are you going to give
and what do you demand in return?
We are not giving anything just like that - this is a matter of
negotiations. We invited Russian businessmen, indicating that we
would be happy to see investment capital. Georgia is ready to open
itself up to economic cooperation, but on a mutually beneficial
basis. We must be sure that Russia's presence in the Georgian economy
will not work against our national interests.
Are you happy with the RAO UES Unified Energy System's presence in
the energy sector?
Mr. Chubais keeps his promises, in particular the promise to supply
power to Georgia. If the relations between our two countries are
built on such a pragmatic and constructive foundation, I am confident
that we will be able to avoid many problems.MN
FACT BOX
Burdzhanadze, Nino Anzorovna, was born on July 16, 1964; in 1981,
finished A. Tsereteli Secondary School #2 in the city of Kutaisi with
a gold medal, entering the Tbilisi I. Dzhavakhishvili University
School of Law in the same year; in 1986, she was admitted to the
graduate school at the Moscow State University (MGU) International
Law Department, in 1990 defending a Cand.Sc. dissertation, titled
Problems of International Organizations and International Maritime
Law; from 1991, associate professor at the Tbilisi University
International Law and International Relations Department; author of
approximately 20 academic papers, published in Georgian, Russian, and
English; since 1995, an elected member of the Georgian parliament;
from 1998, chairperson of the parliamentary Committee on
Constitutional and Legal Affairs and Law Enforcement; from 2000, head
of the parliamentary Foreign Relations Committee.
In November 2001, Nino Burdzhanadze was elected speaker of the
Georgian parliament. On November 22, 2003, following Eduard
Shevardnadze's resignation, she was acting president, running the
country until a new head of state was elected (January 26, 2004),
thereupon resuming her functions as speaker of parliament.
From: Emil Lazarian | Ararat NewsPress