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RUSSOPHILIA HINDERS US
Siranuysh Papyan
Lragir.am
http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/interview23126.html
29/08/2011
Interview with Haykak Arshamyan, historian
Haykak, my interlocutors in my recent interviews disbelieve Gallup's
poll results claiming a 5% decline of Russian sentiment in Armenia.
But they say Russophilia is deeply rooted. As a historian, could
you guide us to the beginning of Russophilia? Is it due to the 70
Soviet years?
In Armenia, Russophilia dates back to the early 18th century when
the Armenian national liberation thought gradually faced the Russian
empire. It was strengthened in the 19th century as Russia captured
East Armenia. The Armenian political thought gradually fell under
the influence of the Russian politics. The emergence of the Armenian
political parties was mainly the influence of the Russian political
parties and movements.
The second layer of Russophilia is deeper and is determined by the
period of the Soviet Union. In those notorious 70 years Armenia bore
the influence of the Russian empire called the Soviet Union. I think
current Russophilia is its consequence because in the late 19th
and early 20th century the Armenian people living in the Russian
empire were disappointed with the anti-Armenian policy of the Russian
government innumerous times. It was not accidental that non-pro-Russian
trends emerged in the Armenian political thought. The disappointment
with the Russian imperialistic chauvinism was so great that in the
early 20th century the Armenian political parties tried to cooperate
with the Turkish political parties. One more example. In 1828 East
Armenia was annexed by Russia, and after the ensuing Russian-Turkish
war most Armenians migrated from Persia and Turkey to East Armenia
hoping to get support there but in a few years they got so disappointed
with the Russian empire policy and repressions that part of them
left back for Turkey and Persia. The 19th century was marked by
Russian advancement toward the Balkans and pan-Slavonism which was a
dominant ideology not only in Russia but also in the Slavic nations
of Europe who thought they would be saved if Russian empire extended
to their region, so the Armenian issue became secondary and marginal
to pan-Slavonism. The Russian-Turkish wars of the 19th century had
two fronts, Caucasian and Balkan. Every time Russia succeeded on the
Caucasian front, it eventually made concessions to gain dividends in
the Balkans. It was especially evident after the Russian-Turkish war
in 1877-1878, and only in the late 1890s did the Armenian political
thought realize that Russia is always ready to ignore the Armenian
issue for the sake of its geopolitical interests.
With such experience behind, why is today's government again facing
Russia?
Today's government with its innumerable roots is tied to and at the
same time dependent on Russia. Our government is not only politically
and economy dependent on the Russian government but also is facing
the problem of reproduction and every time it gets serious support
from Moscow.
These roots are deep, evidence to which are the debt of 100 million
dollars and the notorious project of property for debt which marked
another invasion of Armenia by the Russian empire and it gradually
came into possession of the greater share of our strategic resources -
communication, energy, railway - in the past decade.
In your opinion, does Russia stand a chance of democratic transition
and does it set such a goal? What processes are underway now there
and here?
Frankly speaking, I have no expectations of democracy or human
rights in Russia because it upholds the worst traditions of the same
Russian empire and the Soviet Union. There, every democratic wave,
every small uprising is cruelly cracked down by the authorities. The
Russian imperialism will continue for a long time, the Russian people
are used to the whip and believe in the idea of the good king. Even
the worst dictator in Russia is perceived as a good ruler, and the
surrounding is blamed for everything. The Russian muzhik does not
blame the tsar, he blames bad officials surrounding the tsar.
As to Armenia, the situation here is more or less "better" than
in Russia because in Russia the opposition has been annihilated
and abandoned. Unfortunately, in Russia there is just a handful of
opposition led by the chess player Garry Kasparov. The other forces
accepted the reality and mainly joined the totalitarian government.
Theoretically, of course, it is possible that if a democratic wave
rises, changing the situation by miracle, it will affect Armenia. For
the time being, however, I think Russia leads Armenia to a democratic
deadlock. The deeper Russophilia and Russian sentiment, the slower
democratic transition in Armenia will be.
One of our interlocutors says our political forces are the product
of the Soviet Union, therefore they bear the influence of the Russian
policy. Do you agree?
It is nostalgia for the Soviet Union or just upbringing that people
can't rid of and get a broader view of the world. Russia itself is
unaware that the world lives in the 21st century, and the methods
with which the country is governed, from economy to external and
internal policies, are obsolete. Those political personalities in
Armenia who think that we are stuck amid the 90s are badly mistaken,
in the world the events succeed each other at such a pace, and such
unpredictable vectors emerge, both the government and the opposition
of Armenia must be ready to cope with these vectors.
Should we set a goal to rid of Russophilia or say no to the empire
and yes to sovereignty?
In fact, I answered this question for me a long time ago. The people
who are well-aware of the dangers coming from Russia (although positive
waves also come from Russia) must shake off the imperialistic mindset.
Actually, I don't understand the notions "friendship of two nations"
and "elder and younger brothers". People needn't declare each
other friends, as we do with Russians and Georgians (and formerly
with Azerbaijan). There are no brothers, in-law, or hostile nations,
there are common interests, necessity to coexist in a region, cultural
relations and interaction.
What are the positive waves you mentioned?
The culture created within the Russian empire, education, literature,
the Russian cultural heritage. When I said positive waves, I meant
cultural interrelation and interaction.
Will Turkish-Russian normalization lead to liberation from Russophilia?
As a historian, I will say that the Armenian issue, the Armenian
people, Armenian territories were repeatedly sacrificed on the altar
of the Russian-Turkish relations. I don't think a serious politician
would not understand this. As to the Russia-Turkey rapprochement, their
relations are a cloud in the horizon. Although Turkey is undergoing
internal transformation, there are common economic and political
interests, and we must keep the Russian-Turkish rapprochement in focus
and try to counteract and find alternative solutions. Russia has always
tried to keep the Armenian-Turkish relations under control and Russia
has a hand in the failure of the Armenian-Turkish protocols. Russia
will always keep Armenia's foreign policies on Turkey and Iran under
control.
What causes nostalgia now when the Soviet Union has been unveiled,
and everything is clear?
This has two reasons. First, the transition to liberal economy
deviated toward a monopolized criminal-oligarchic system. As a result,
the majority of the public can't see the advantages of an economy
without monopolies. The Soviet leveled quality of life, almost free
from polarization, is still vivid in the memories of the society.
One more observation. The press has recently brought up lustration,
declassification of KGB archives. I think it's a peculiar form of
self-clearance, though belated because Eastern Europe and the Baltic
states did it earlier at the beginning of their independence, which
helped them overcome inhibitions, people who had cooperated with the
Soviet Union's security body were banned from government. In Armenia,
it was not done in the 1990s, and it is not done now, but I am sure
that declassification of KGB archives will help cleanse the society,
as well as uproot Russophilia. However, it is not an end in itself,
therefore I think that it must be done only when free elections
are held in Armenia, and the society has a genuine participation in
government. In Armenia, self-cleansing could be triggered by political
forces which will come to government through democratic elections.
Siranuysh Papyan
Lragir.am
http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/interview23126.html
29/08/2011
Interview with Haykak Arshamyan, historian
Haykak, my interlocutors in my recent interviews disbelieve Gallup's
poll results claiming a 5% decline of Russian sentiment in Armenia.
But they say Russophilia is deeply rooted. As a historian, could
you guide us to the beginning of Russophilia? Is it due to the 70
Soviet years?
In Armenia, Russophilia dates back to the early 18th century when
the Armenian national liberation thought gradually faced the Russian
empire. It was strengthened in the 19th century as Russia captured
East Armenia. The Armenian political thought gradually fell under
the influence of the Russian politics. The emergence of the Armenian
political parties was mainly the influence of the Russian political
parties and movements.
The second layer of Russophilia is deeper and is determined by the
period of the Soviet Union. In those notorious 70 years Armenia bore
the influence of the Russian empire called the Soviet Union. I think
current Russophilia is its consequence because in the late 19th
and early 20th century the Armenian people living in the Russian
empire were disappointed with the anti-Armenian policy of the Russian
government innumerous times. It was not accidental that non-pro-Russian
trends emerged in the Armenian political thought. The disappointment
with the Russian imperialistic chauvinism was so great that in the
early 20th century the Armenian political parties tried to cooperate
with the Turkish political parties. One more example. In 1828 East
Armenia was annexed by Russia, and after the ensuing Russian-Turkish
war most Armenians migrated from Persia and Turkey to East Armenia
hoping to get support there but in a few years they got so disappointed
with the Russian empire policy and repressions that part of them
left back for Turkey and Persia. The 19th century was marked by
Russian advancement toward the Balkans and pan-Slavonism which was a
dominant ideology not only in Russia but also in the Slavic nations
of Europe who thought they would be saved if Russian empire extended
to their region, so the Armenian issue became secondary and marginal
to pan-Slavonism. The Russian-Turkish wars of the 19th century had
two fronts, Caucasian and Balkan. Every time Russia succeeded on the
Caucasian front, it eventually made concessions to gain dividends in
the Balkans. It was especially evident after the Russian-Turkish war
in 1877-1878, and only in the late 1890s did the Armenian political
thought realize that Russia is always ready to ignore the Armenian
issue for the sake of its geopolitical interests.
With such experience behind, why is today's government again facing
Russia?
Today's government with its innumerable roots is tied to and at the
same time dependent on Russia. Our government is not only politically
and economy dependent on the Russian government but also is facing
the problem of reproduction and every time it gets serious support
from Moscow.
These roots are deep, evidence to which are the debt of 100 million
dollars and the notorious project of property for debt which marked
another invasion of Armenia by the Russian empire and it gradually
came into possession of the greater share of our strategic resources -
communication, energy, railway - in the past decade.
In your opinion, does Russia stand a chance of democratic transition
and does it set such a goal? What processes are underway now there
and here?
Frankly speaking, I have no expectations of democracy or human
rights in Russia because it upholds the worst traditions of the same
Russian empire and the Soviet Union. There, every democratic wave,
every small uprising is cruelly cracked down by the authorities. The
Russian imperialism will continue for a long time, the Russian people
are used to the whip and believe in the idea of the good king. Even
the worst dictator in Russia is perceived as a good ruler, and the
surrounding is blamed for everything. The Russian muzhik does not
blame the tsar, he blames bad officials surrounding the tsar.
As to Armenia, the situation here is more or less "better" than
in Russia because in Russia the opposition has been annihilated
and abandoned. Unfortunately, in Russia there is just a handful of
opposition led by the chess player Garry Kasparov. The other forces
accepted the reality and mainly joined the totalitarian government.
Theoretically, of course, it is possible that if a democratic wave
rises, changing the situation by miracle, it will affect Armenia. For
the time being, however, I think Russia leads Armenia to a democratic
deadlock. The deeper Russophilia and Russian sentiment, the slower
democratic transition in Armenia will be.
One of our interlocutors says our political forces are the product
of the Soviet Union, therefore they bear the influence of the Russian
policy. Do you agree?
It is nostalgia for the Soviet Union or just upbringing that people
can't rid of and get a broader view of the world. Russia itself is
unaware that the world lives in the 21st century, and the methods
with which the country is governed, from economy to external and
internal policies, are obsolete. Those political personalities in
Armenia who think that we are stuck amid the 90s are badly mistaken,
in the world the events succeed each other at such a pace, and such
unpredictable vectors emerge, both the government and the opposition
of Armenia must be ready to cope with these vectors.
Should we set a goal to rid of Russophilia or say no to the empire
and yes to sovereignty?
In fact, I answered this question for me a long time ago. The people
who are well-aware of the dangers coming from Russia (although positive
waves also come from Russia) must shake off the imperialistic mindset.
Actually, I don't understand the notions "friendship of two nations"
and "elder and younger brothers". People needn't declare each
other friends, as we do with Russians and Georgians (and formerly
with Azerbaijan). There are no brothers, in-law, or hostile nations,
there are common interests, necessity to coexist in a region, cultural
relations and interaction.
What are the positive waves you mentioned?
The culture created within the Russian empire, education, literature,
the Russian cultural heritage. When I said positive waves, I meant
cultural interrelation and interaction.
Will Turkish-Russian normalization lead to liberation from Russophilia?
As a historian, I will say that the Armenian issue, the Armenian
people, Armenian territories were repeatedly sacrificed on the altar
of the Russian-Turkish relations. I don't think a serious politician
would not understand this. As to the Russia-Turkey rapprochement, their
relations are a cloud in the horizon. Although Turkey is undergoing
internal transformation, there are common economic and political
interests, and we must keep the Russian-Turkish rapprochement in focus
and try to counteract and find alternative solutions. Russia has always
tried to keep the Armenian-Turkish relations under control and Russia
has a hand in the failure of the Armenian-Turkish protocols. Russia
will always keep Armenia's foreign policies on Turkey and Iran under
control.
What causes nostalgia now when the Soviet Union has been unveiled,
and everything is clear?
This has two reasons. First, the transition to liberal economy
deviated toward a monopolized criminal-oligarchic system. As a result,
the majority of the public can't see the advantages of an economy
without monopolies. The Soviet leveled quality of life, almost free
from polarization, is still vivid in the memories of the society.
One more observation. The press has recently brought up lustration,
declassification of KGB archives. I think it's a peculiar form of
self-clearance, though belated because Eastern Europe and the Baltic
states did it earlier at the beginning of their independence, which
helped them overcome inhibitions, people who had cooperated with the
Soviet Union's security body were banned from government. In Armenia,
it was not done in the 1990s, and it is not done now, but I am sure
that declassification of KGB archives will help cleanse the society,
as well as uproot Russophilia. However, it is not an end in itself,
therefore I think that it must be done only when free elections
are held in Armenia, and the society has a genuine participation in
government. In Armenia, self-cleansing could be triggered by political
forces which will come to government through democratic elections.