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INTERVIEW WITH NKR FOREIGN MINISTER
Azat Artsakh - Nagorno Karabakh Republic [NKR]
17 June 05
H 2: `Mr. Minister, the foreign ministers of Armenia and Azerbaijan
meet in Paris On June 17th. This is their first meeting after the
meeting Kocharian ` Aliev in Warsaw. What does Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic anticipate from this meeting? What standpoint would you like
to confirm once again before this meeting?' Arman Melikian: `We do not
have a problem of confirming once again any standpoints because we
have already expressed our standpoint. As to the meeting, we do not
expect anything special from one meeting, which is natural. Today the
process of negotiations is flowing by its usual course. We must follow
to see what the results of the meeting are. Perhaps, it is not the
moment to have any special anticipation.'
H 2: `Mr. Minister, the Azerbaijani parliamentarians have recently
been declaring at different organizations that Armenia agrees to
returning the so-called occupied territories. What is the standpoint
of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic toward this issue and are there
principal changes in your standpoint?'
A.M.: `There are no principal changes in our standpoint. As to the
statements of the Azerbaijanis, this is not the first time they try to
make psychological pressure on all of us and persuade us to return the
territories. At any rate, I have not heard similar statements from the
Armenian side. Instead I have heard them deny the statements of the
Azerbaijanis.'
H 2: `In the past two or three years Azerbaijani journalists and
representatives of public organizations have visited Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic. In Azerbaijan their information is always met with
discontent. What is your attitude towards the mutual visits of
Armenian, including Armenians of NKR, and Azerbaijani journalists and
representatives of NGOs?'
A.M.: `We approve mutual visits because we consider that due interest
should be paid to the life in the neighbouring state. So far this
country has had a hostile attitude toward us, and we need to know
possibly much about the moods within the society for everything
offered to us through the Azerbaijani press and other mass media
emanates from the interests of the political elite of that country. In
fact, the Azerbaijani authorities are trying to keep away the truth
about Nagorno-Karabakh Republic from the Azerbaijani society. We must
try to make this truth reach the Azerbaijanis; the Azerbaijanis have
the right to know what is going on in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. We
are willing to give the chance to the Azerbaijani journalists and
people. Not once or twice have they visited Nagorno-Karabakh Republic,
met with people from all classes, both authorities and common people
in villages, regions and got a clear impression of the present day of
NKR, the expectations of people from the future day, and their vision
of the future in general. And when they get convinced that an ordinary
Karabakh man envisages Nagorno-Karabakh Republic to be independent and
only at this condition is he ready to set up relationships with
Azerbaijan, this is, I think, an important fact for both peoples. The
people that does not want to see the truth and evaluate the reality
objectively, the people, government, country is doomed to failure.'
H 2: `Soon the parliamentary election will be held in Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic. Have you invited foreign observers, and have they agreed to
come? There is an opinion that this election is going to be the most
fair and transparent election ever held in our region. What is your
opinion on this?'
A.M.: `Elections in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic are first of all to
improve life in our country. Let others make comparisons in this
regard. It is not our aim to be commended by the international
community for holding exemplary elections. We need to hold such
elections, and if they correspond to the international standards, and
I am sure they do, it is all the best. But again I want to underline
that this is an issue of improving our life and, therefore,
successful, transparent and democratic elections are important. As to
the observers, we have, of course, invited observers. We in vited a
large number of international organizations, individuals,
NGOs. Hundreds of people have agreed to come and monitor the upcoming
election to the National Assembly of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. The
geography of the observers is very wide. There will be observers from
the CIS, Europe, the USA, as well as the Islamic countries.'
H 2: `Mr. Minister, the Azerbaijanis keep declaring in international
organizations about the issue of returning of 1 million refugees. In
fact, the number must be about 400 thousand. Why do I tell this
number? Because almost as many Armenians have been expelled from Baku
and the areas adjacent to the Autonomous Region of Nagorno Karabakh
(in 1988). Why is the issue of these people returning to their homes
not raised? Who will do this? Why can the Azerbaijanis claim redress
and the Armenians cannot?'
A.M.: `This is a very important issue. I do not agree that the issue
has not been raised. We have raised the issue in Nagorno Karabakh. I
consider the issue of the Armenians refugees from Azerbaijan one of
the most important components of the resolution of the
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. We must also emphasize the difference
between the Armenian and Azerbaijani refugees. The Armenians were
expelled from Soviet Azerbaijan due to the efforts of the Azerbaijani
authorities. This was ethnic cleansing. These people left the
territory of the Azerbaijan and are now scattered all over the
CIS. Part of them is living in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, others in
Armenia, but the majority is in Russian Federation and other
places. As to the Azerbaijani refugees, in the long run they cannot be
considered as refugees because they are internally displaced
persons. The status of refugee supposes passing internationally
recognized border. A person can be considered as a refugee if the
latter fact has taken place. Today, if these people are regarded as
refugees, the fact of Nagorno Karabakh not being part of Azerbaijan
and being an independent state is recognized indirectly. Otherwise,
those people were to be recognized as internally displaced persons,
and the government of Azerbaijan was to take care of them and not the
international organizations, which usually aid refugees. There is
another problem as well. The Azerbaijanis left these territories
forced by the war waged by Azerbaijan. Not recognizing the
independence of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, Azerbaijan tried to force
the Armenians of Nagorno Karabakh to admit the fact that they would
continue being part of Azerbaijan. The war began. As a result of the
military actions people were forced to leave their homes and move from
one place to another within Azerbaijan. In this respect I believe that
the Azerbaijani government should be responsible for the future of the
internally displaced persons, recovery of their material losses. The
issue of recovery of the losses of the Armenian refugees also should
be solved on the resources of Azerbaijan. We must view the problem of
resolution from the point of view of interests of all the people
involved in the conflict who suffered losses. The rights of the
Armenian refugees should be protected both in terms of the lost
property and return to their homes. When we consider the territories,
we say this issue cannot be solved separately. If, on the one hand,
these territories are viewed as a buffer zone for Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic, on the other hand they must also be viewed as a security for
recovering the rights of the Armenian refugees, and as such be
included in the negotiation process. I think this is the obligation of
every one of us.'
H 2: `Today promoting Euro integration is widely discussed in the
South Caucasus, as well as in terms of resolution of conflicts. Do you
think Nagorno-Karabakh Republic with its present-day status can be
involved in Euro integration? In other words, does the involvement of
the recognized republics of the South Caucasus in the EU New
Neighbourhood Policy mean that Nagorno-Karabakh Republic can also be
involved in it?'
A.M.: `It would, perhaps, be pointless to make forecasts on the
process. One thing is clear. In Europe and Nagorno Karabakh the same
system of values works, and there is cultural ground and similar
worldview for getting closer to Europe. But we must recognize that the
European Union is not a charity organization. When speaking about Euro
integration they do not mean that in the upcoming 10 ` 15 years the
countries of the South Caucasus will become members of the EU. The
process has not even started for Turkey. It is foreseen that EU must
start negotiating with Turkey on the issue of membership. Currently,
even the possibility for starting negotiations is at stake. You know
that France and Holland said `no' to the Euro constitution. This means
that the process of European integration encounters problems in
Europe. I think it will be more reasonable to provide prerequisites
for Euro integration so that when the time comes we are ready to be
involved in the process actively. Today it is early to make optimistic
forecasts.'
H 2: `The advisor to the prime minister of Turkey R. Erdoghan visited
Yerevan with a delegation of parliamentarians and journalists. They
made use of every opportunity to state that they had come to begin
negotiations anew and to open a new page in the Turkish-Armenian
dialogue. What is your attitude toward the factor of Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic in the settlement of problems between Turkey and Armenia?'
A.M.: `First, as to the factor of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic in Turkish
`Armenian relationships, both Azerbaijanis and Turks often say that as
long as the issue of Nagorno Karabakh is not solved, and there are
Armenian troops in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, the
prospect of opening of the Turkish ` Armenian border and the
improvement of Turkish ` Armenian relationships is vague. I think this
argument is aimed to disguise absolutely different political
interests. I believe that Turkey uses the issue of keeping the Turkish
` Armenian border closed for gaining advantages in the negotiations
with the EU members. The EU members in their turn raise the issue of
recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey. That is two say, two
issues important for Armenians have become an object of talks and
trade between Turkey and the European Union. The Armenian side should
try to view the issue from this standpoint. Getting rid of illusions,
let us try to use the opportunities to create a favourable situation
for us.
AA.
17-06-2005
Azat Artsakh - Nagorno Karabakh Republic [NKR]
17 June 05
H 2: `Mr. Minister, the foreign ministers of Armenia and Azerbaijan
meet in Paris On June 17th. This is their first meeting after the
meeting Kocharian ` Aliev in Warsaw. What does Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic anticipate from this meeting? What standpoint would you like
to confirm once again before this meeting?' Arman Melikian: `We do not
have a problem of confirming once again any standpoints because we
have already expressed our standpoint. As to the meeting, we do not
expect anything special from one meeting, which is natural. Today the
process of negotiations is flowing by its usual course. We must follow
to see what the results of the meeting are. Perhaps, it is not the
moment to have any special anticipation.'
H 2: `Mr. Minister, the Azerbaijani parliamentarians have recently
been declaring at different organizations that Armenia agrees to
returning the so-called occupied territories. What is the standpoint
of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic toward this issue and are there
principal changes in your standpoint?'
A.M.: `There are no principal changes in our standpoint. As to the
statements of the Azerbaijanis, this is not the first time they try to
make psychological pressure on all of us and persuade us to return the
territories. At any rate, I have not heard similar statements from the
Armenian side. Instead I have heard them deny the statements of the
Azerbaijanis.'
H 2: `In the past two or three years Azerbaijani journalists and
representatives of public organizations have visited Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic. In Azerbaijan their information is always met with
discontent. What is your attitude towards the mutual visits of
Armenian, including Armenians of NKR, and Azerbaijani journalists and
representatives of NGOs?'
A.M.: `We approve mutual visits because we consider that due interest
should be paid to the life in the neighbouring state. So far this
country has had a hostile attitude toward us, and we need to know
possibly much about the moods within the society for everything
offered to us through the Azerbaijani press and other mass media
emanates from the interests of the political elite of that country. In
fact, the Azerbaijani authorities are trying to keep away the truth
about Nagorno-Karabakh Republic from the Azerbaijani society. We must
try to make this truth reach the Azerbaijanis; the Azerbaijanis have
the right to know what is going on in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. We
are willing to give the chance to the Azerbaijani journalists and
people. Not once or twice have they visited Nagorno-Karabakh Republic,
met with people from all classes, both authorities and common people
in villages, regions and got a clear impression of the present day of
NKR, the expectations of people from the future day, and their vision
of the future in general. And when they get convinced that an ordinary
Karabakh man envisages Nagorno-Karabakh Republic to be independent and
only at this condition is he ready to set up relationships with
Azerbaijan, this is, I think, an important fact for both peoples. The
people that does not want to see the truth and evaluate the reality
objectively, the people, government, country is doomed to failure.'
H 2: `Soon the parliamentary election will be held in Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic. Have you invited foreign observers, and have they agreed to
come? There is an opinion that this election is going to be the most
fair and transparent election ever held in our region. What is your
opinion on this?'
A.M.: `Elections in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic are first of all to
improve life in our country. Let others make comparisons in this
regard. It is not our aim to be commended by the international
community for holding exemplary elections. We need to hold such
elections, and if they correspond to the international standards, and
I am sure they do, it is all the best. But again I want to underline
that this is an issue of improving our life and, therefore,
successful, transparent and democratic elections are important. As to
the observers, we have, of course, invited observers. We in vited a
large number of international organizations, individuals,
NGOs. Hundreds of people have agreed to come and monitor the upcoming
election to the National Assembly of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. The
geography of the observers is very wide. There will be observers from
the CIS, Europe, the USA, as well as the Islamic countries.'
H 2: `Mr. Minister, the Azerbaijanis keep declaring in international
organizations about the issue of returning of 1 million refugees. In
fact, the number must be about 400 thousand. Why do I tell this
number? Because almost as many Armenians have been expelled from Baku
and the areas adjacent to the Autonomous Region of Nagorno Karabakh
(in 1988). Why is the issue of these people returning to their homes
not raised? Who will do this? Why can the Azerbaijanis claim redress
and the Armenians cannot?'
A.M.: `This is a very important issue. I do not agree that the issue
has not been raised. We have raised the issue in Nagorno Karabakh. I
consider the issue of the Armenians refugees from Azerbaijan one of
the most important components of the resolution of the
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. We must also emphasize the difference
between the Armenian and Azerbaijani refugees. The Armenians were
expelled from Soviet Azerbaijan due to the efforts of the Azerbaijani
authorities. This was ethnic cleansing. These people left the
territory of the Azerbaijan and are now scattered all over the
CIS. Part of them is living in Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, others in
Armenia, but the majority is in Russian Federation and other
places. As to the Azerbaijani refugees, in the long run they cannot be
considered as refugees because they are internally displaced
persons. The status of refugee supposes passing internationally
recognized border. A person can be considered as a refugee if the
latter fact has taken place. Today, if these people are regarded as
refugees, the fact of Nagorno Karabakh not being part of Azerbaijan
and being an independent state is recognized indirectly. Otherwise,
those people were to be recognized as internally displaced persons,
and the government of Azerbaijan was to take care of them and not the
international organizations, which usually aid refugees. There is
another problem as well. The Azerbaijanis left these territories
forced by the war waged by Azerbaijan. Not recognizing the
independence of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, Azerbaijan tried to force
the Armenians of Nagorno Karabakh to admit the fact that they would
continue being part of Azerbaijan. The war began. As a result of the
military actions people were forced to leave their homes and move from
one place to another within Azerbaijan. In this respect I believe that
the Azerbaijani government should be responsible for the future of the
internally displaced persons, recovery of their material losses. The
issue of recovery of the losses of the Armenian refugees also should
be solved on the resources of Azerbaijan. We must view the problem of
resolution from the point of view of interests of all the people
involved in the conflict who suffered losses. The rights of the
Armenian refugees should be protected both in terms of the lost
property and return to their homes. When we consider the territories,
we say this issue cannot be solved separately. If, on the one hand,
these territories are viewed as a buffer zone for Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic, on the other hand they must also be viewed as a security for
recovering the rights of the Armenian refugees, and as such be
included in the negotiation process. I think this is the obligation of
every one of us.'
H 2: `Today promoting Euro integration is widely discussed in the
South Caucasus, as well as in terms of resolution of conflicts. Do you
think Nagorno-Karabakh Republic with its present-day status can be
involved in Euro integration? In other words, does the involvement of
the recognized republics of the South Caucasus in the EU New
Neighbourhood Policy mean that Nagorno-Karabakh Republic can also be
involved in it?'
A.M.: `It would, perhaps, be pointless to make forecasts on the
process. One thing is clear. In Europe and Nagorno Karabakh the same
system of values works, and there is cultural ground and similar
worldview for getting closer to Europe. But we must recognize that the
European Union is not a charity organization. When speaking about Euro
integration they do not mean that in the upcoming 10 ` 15 years the
countries of the South Caucasus will become members of the EU. The
process has not even started for Turkey. It is foreseen that EU must
start negotiating with Turkey on the issue of membership. Currently,
even the possibility for starting negotiations is at stake. You know
that France and Holland said `no' to the Euro constitution. This means
that the process of European integration encounters problems in
Europe. I think it will be more reasonable to provide prerequisites
for Euro integration so that when the time comes we are ready to be
involved in the process actively. Today it is early to make optimistic
forecasts.'
H 2: `The advisor to the prime minister of Turkey R. Erdoghan visited
Yerevan with a delegation of parliamentarians and journalists. They
made use of every opportunity to state that they had come to begin
negotiations anew and to open a new page in the Turkish-Armenian
dialogue. What is your attitude toward the factor of Nagorno-Karabakh
Republic in the settlement of problems between Turkey and Armenia?'
A.M.: `First, as to the factor of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic in Turkish
`Armenian relationships, both Azerbaijanis and Turks often say that as
long as the issue of Nagorno Karabakh is not solved, and there are
Armenian troops in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, the
prospect of opening of the Turkish ` Armenian border and the
improvement of Turkish ` Armenian relationships is vague. I think this
argument is aimed to disguise absolutely different political
interests. I believe that Turkey uses the issue of keeping the Turkish
` Armenian border closed for gaining advantages in the negotiations
with the EU members. The EU members in their turn raise the issue of
recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey. That is two say, two
issues important for Armenians have become an object of talks and
trade between Turkey and the European Union. The Armenian side should
try to view the issue from this standpoint. Getting rid of illusions,
let us try to use the opportunities to create a favourable situation
for us.
AA.
17-06-2005