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RUSSIA DOES NOT SET FORTH THE ISSUE OF "EITHER-OR"
August 28 2013
According to political technologist Karen Kocharyan, the West sets a
condition, the issue of choice before Armenia - Mr. Kocharyan, what
challenges can Armenia face in the coming fall? - I think there will
be external challenges related to the EU Association Agreement, the
Customs Union, in other words, with the West-Russia interrelations,
as well as with regard to the presidential elections to be held
in Azerbaijan, it is apparent that there is activeness both in the
contact line, the latest provocation with respect to the Armenian
soldier, and in the official statements and assessments raised from
there. In other words, the activeness will be expressed mostly with
such activities rather than internal political struggle. - Do you
think that the issue of the West-Russian choice will get tougher in
the future, taking into account the fact that a lot depends largely
on the decision of Ukraine than Armenia with regard to the future the
Customs Union at least at this point? - Ukraine's case is different
in all respects, the differences are many, for example, in terms of
points of the agreement, because Ukraine does not have the Karabakh
problem. Ukraine is more self-sufficient country that Armenia, it
is a state rich in resources. Most importantly, Ukraine is headed to
signing of the Association Agreement, we are headed to initialing.
It's another issue, yes, I agree that if Ukraine refused to sign that
agreement, other countries are of less interest to Europe, including
us. There were publications in the media regarding "either-or" and
"and-and", and not only in the media, if I'm not mistaken, in the third
Summit of the Eastern Partnership of EPP leaders in ChiÅ~_inÄ~Cu,
the President Serzh Sargsyan, looks like, stated in his speech that
"either-or" is unacceptable when he stated that the Eastern Partnership
by its nature is an initiative aimed at creating cooperation and not
controversies, it is not directed against any state or group of states,
and this partnership is aimed at ultimately overcoming the divisive
lines. ("Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area Agreement, which is
currently being negotiated with the European Union, it will not be
fully operational after the entry into force if the Armenian-Turkish
border will remain closed. We believe that the European Union should
seriously discuss the issue of closed borders, because, in their
presence, the trade with the EU Customs Union may not be effective,"-
said S. Sargsyan). If the West sets forth the issue of "either-or",
I think there will be problems. - And if Russia, however, still
officially announces and sets forth the issue of "either-or" before
Armenia... - Russia will not set forth the issue of "either-or". Still
a year ago, when the former German ambassador to Armenia stated that
"it is impossible to join the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade area
agreement with the EU, and on the other hand, at the same time,
constituting a part of the Eurasian Union, or joining the Customs
Union", Russia responded that it could be "and - and", they are not
against "and - and". That is to say, the West sets forth the issue
of choice more. Well, we are always used to that the Russians exert
pressure on us, set forth absurd claims before us, but in this case
it turns out that the West exerts more pressure on us with regard to
"either-or", in other words, the West sets forth the condition and it
is clear why, because it could become a precedent for them, because
so far there is no "and - and" for them. - But this "pressure",
"stings" are, however, clearly expressed by the Russian side, at
least so far on the level of the RF former Ambassador to Armenia,
or the Russian expert circles. - Not however, but there are serious
pressures when they point out the example of Ukraine. Of course,
there is pressure, but I think that the pressure is not for "and-and",
but for the issue of "either-or" choice with regard to the initialing
the Association Agreement. - Mr. Kocharyan, recently the civil society
is showing activeness in various aspects, even though various doubts
were expressed about their activities, for example, the ANC believes
that the authorities in "We pay 100 drams" movement 'have introduced
their agents'." How do you feel about the activeness of the civilian
groups? - These are just words, there is no evidence. Well, you know,
now someone else with the same logic can say that the four years
rallies of the ANC were controlled by the authorities. Of course,
they will controvert that they were imprisoned, sent to the jail
... People, here, are also beaten, they get brain concussion. In other
words, people announcing such things must prove. - Anyway, what do you
think, will the activeness of the social groups go down, or it will
become stronger, can they even replace political forces with more
productive activities? - The social can never replace the political
processes. They are parallel processes all over the world. Should
they replace, it would be an abnormal phenomenon. I think the demand
of the times lies in the base of recent procedures, the internet,
availability and accessibility to information, which contributes to
the development of civil society. If until now it was missing, but
now civil society is developing in Armenia, which is unusual for us,
if not the outbreak of 1988, which, of course, was largely a national,
and not a civilian. Civil and political processes should proceed in
parallel. I do not clear to me as to why the political forces should
deal with the problem of the park, they can raise the issue, but it
is not a political battle. They have these tribunes, the Council,
the tribunes of the Parliament, let them raise the problems. -
How proportionate do you consider the counter reaction of the law
enforcement to the protesters a few days ago on Komitas 5 Street? -
Over the last two years, the police was keeping quite discreet, more
civil, it was not displaying such a tough attitude. I think there
were some provocations from both sides on Komitas 5. I do not want to
protect the police at all, it is clear that there are some meaningless
figures over there, who should not have anything to do with the law
enforcement, in general, and the state system. But if we consider how
civil movements are oppressed in the world, including in the most
developed western countries, they treat much more severely. If the
matter is about Argishti Kiviryan, what it means to make the man get
into the car and beat him to the point that the latter gets a brain
concussion, in other words, it is clear that they were "animals" and
not the police officers. But, in general, bringing water cannons,
rubber batons, beating, pulling, the police all over the world act
as such, let's remember France, not to speak about the USA, try to
play a trick with a police officer. Emma GABRIELYAN
Read more at: http://en.aravot.am/2013/08/28/156205/
August 28 2013
According to political technologist Karen Kocharyan, the West sets a
condition, the issue of choice before Armenia - Mr. Kocharyan, what
challenges can Armenia face in the coming fall? - I think there will
be external challenges related to the EU Association Agreement, the
Customs Union, in other words, with the West-Russia interrelations,
as well as with regard to the presidential elections to be held
in Azerbaijan, it is apparent that there is activeness both in the
contact line, the latest provocation with respect to the Armenian
soldier, and in the official statements and assessments raised from
there. In other words, the activeness will be expressed mostly with
such activities rather than internal political struggle. - Do you
think that the issue of the West-Russian choice will get tougher in
the future, taking into account the fact that a lot depends largely
on the decision of Ukraine than Armenia with regard to the future the
Customs Union at least at this point? - Ukraine's case is different
in all respects, the differences are many, for example, in terms of
points of the agreement, because Ukraine does not have the Karabakh
problem. Ukraine is more self-sufficient country that Armenia, it
is a state rich in resources. Most importantly, Ukraine is headed to
signing of the Association Agreement, we are headed to initialing.
It's another issue, yes, I agree that if Ukraine refused to sign that
agreement, other countries are of less interest to Europe, including
us. There were publications in the media regarding "either-or" and
"and-and", and not only in the media, if I'm not mistaken, in the third
Summit of the Eastern Partnership of EPP leaders in ChiÅ~_inÄ~Cu,
the President Serzh Sargsyan, looks like, stated in his speech that
"either-or" is unacceptable when he stated that the Eastern Partnership
by its nature is an initiative aimed at creating cooperation and not
controversies, it is not directed against any state or group of states,
and this partnership is aimed at ultimately overcoming the divisive
lines. ("Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area Agreement, which is
currently being negotiated with the European Union, it will not be
fully operational after the entry into force if the Armenian-Turkish
border will remain closed. We believe that the European Union should
seriously discuss the issue of closed borders, because, in their
presence, the trade with the EU Customs Union may not be effective,"-
said S. Sargsyan). If the West sets forth the issue of "either-or",
I think there will be problems. - And if Russia, however, still
officially announces and sets forth the issue of "either-or" before
Armenia... - Russia will not set forth the issue of "either-or". Still
a year ago, when the former German ambassador to Armenia stated that
"it is impossible to join the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade area
agreement with the EU, and on the other hand, at the same time,
constituting a part of the Eurasian Union, or joining the Customs
Union", Russia responded that it could be "and - and", they are not
against "and - and". That is to say, the West sets forth the issue
of choice more. Well, we are always used to that the Russians exert
pressure on us, set forth absurd claims before us, but in this case
it turns out that the West exerts more pressure on us with regard to
"either-or", in other words, the West sets forth the condition and it
is clear why, because it could become a precedent for them, because
so far there is no "and - and" for them. - But this "pressure",
"stings" are, however, clearly expressed by the Russian side, at
least so far on the level of the RF former Ambassador to Armenia,
or the Russian expert circles. - Not however, but there are serious
pressures when they point out the example of Ukraine. Of course,
there is pressure, but I think that the pressure is not for "and-and",
but for the issue of "either-or" choice with regard to the initialing
the Association Agreement. - Mr. Kocharyan, recently the civil society
is showing activeness in various aspects, even though various doubts
were expressed about their activities, for example, the ANC believes
that the authorities in "We pay 100 drams" movement 'have introduced
their agents'." How do you feel about the activeness of the civilian
groups? - These are just words, there is no evidence. Well, you know,
now someone else with the same logic can say that the four years
rallies of the ANC were controlled by the authorities. Of course,
they will controvert that they were imprisoned, sent to the jail
... People, here, are also beaten, they get brain concussion. In other
words, people announcing such things must prove. - Anyway, what do you
think, will the activeness of the social groups go down, or it will
become stronger, can they even replace political forces with more
productive activities? - The social can never replace the political
processes. They are parallel processes all over the world. Should
they replace, it would be an abnormal phenomenon. I think the demand
of the times lies in the base of recent procedures, the internet,
availability and accessibility to information, which contributes to
the development of civil society. If until now it was missing, but
now civil society is developing in Armenia, which is unusual for us,
if not the outbreak of 1988, which, of course, was largely a national,
and not a civilian. Civil and political processes should proceed in
parallel. I do not clear to me as to why the political forces should
deal with the problem of the park, they can raise the issue, but it
is not a political battle. They have these tribunes, the Council,
the tribunes of the Parliament, let them raise the problems. -
How proportionate do you consider the counter reaction of the law
enforcement to the protesters a few days ago on Komitas 5 Street? -
Over the last two years, the police was keeping quite discreet, more
civil, it was not displaying such a tough attitude. I think there
were some provocations from both sides on Komitas 5. I do not want to
protect the police at all, it is clear that there are some meaningless
figures over there, who should not have anything to do with the law
enforcement, in general, and the state system. But if we consider how
civil movements are oppressed in the world, including in the most
developed western countries, they treat much more severely. If the
matter is about Argishti Kiviryan, what it means to make the man get
into the car and beat him to the point that the latter gets a brain
concussion, in other words, it is clear that they were "animals" and
not the police officers. But, in general, bringing water cannons,
rubber batons, beating, pulling, the police all over the world act
as such, let's remember France, not to speak about the USA, try to
play a trick with a police officer. Emma GABRIELYAN
Read more at: http://en.aravot.am/2013/08/28/156205/