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SO-CALLED ARMENIAN 'GENOCIDE' DISCUSSION AT THE SOVIET-POLIT-BUREAU
Journal of Turkish Weekly, Turkey
Jan 10 2006
* "These subjects never were on our agenda in Lenin times"
In the meeting of 21 Feb. 1985 of the Politbureau under the presidency
of Gorbachov, the genocide charges were discussed.
However, since there was not a similar example in history, and it
would damage the relations with Turkey to the benefit of USA, the
proposition to announce April 24 as Genocide Day, was rejected.
It has been discovered that during the meeting of the Soviet Union
Communist Party's Polit Bureau held on Feb.21,1985, the subject
of genocide was discussed. An Azerbaijan congressman and scholar
Prof.Dr. Cemil Hasanli, during his research studies in the USA National
Security Archives, found the minutes relative to this meeting which
were brought from Russian state archives. The subject was discussed in
the meeting, under the heading of "Matters to be done, in connection
with the 70th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide" of the meeting
agenda and was brought in the agenda by Gorbachov.
K. Demircian, first secretary of the Armenian Communist Party,
had sent a letter to the Central Committee of the Soviet Communist
Party; the subject was talked over in the Central Committee and later
transferred to the agenda of the meeting of the Polit Bureau.
Those present in the meeting, were M.S. Gorbachov, H.A.Aliyev,
V.I.Vorotnikov, V.V.Grisin, A.A. Gromiko, G.V. Romanov, M.S.
Solomontsev, N. Tihonov, P.N. Demircev, V.I. Dolgih, V.V. Kuznetsov,
B.N. Ponomaryov, V.M. Cebrikov, M.M. Zimyanin, I.V. Kapitonov, Y.K.
Ligacev and N.I. Rijkov. Despite the serious efforts of Gorbachov and
Demircian, the Politbureau did not approve to announce April 24th,
as the Memorial Day of Genocide victims. Experienced members of the
Poliutbureau such as N. Tihonov, A. Gromiko, V. Grisin, stood against
this attempt.
We are releasing for the first time an explicit summary of this meeting
statement, stamped "Top Secret". Translation of the contents from
Russian, has been made by Dr. Mayis Alizade. (Note: This translation
into English is made from the article in Turkish and hence any probable
unintended differences should be excused. SSA)
21st February 1985
GORBACHOV: This subject has been discussed in the Secretariat of the
Central Committee. As you are aware, there were no activities in our
country relating to the 50th anniversary of the genocide. Some time
ago, the subject of the 60th year of genocide was discussed with
Leonid Ilic Brejnev and Mihail Andreyevic Suslov. At that time it
was decided to take some actions which were approved. And now in the
year 1985, in the 70th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide which
was organized by Sultan's Turkey h,as been put on our agenda for
additional action. According to the organs of the Armenian Party,
these suggestions are brought to ell iminate the accusations of the
of the enemies of the people, to secure the position of the people
classes of the Soviet Union relative to this issue and drop them from
the agenda. There is a large fanfare in the bourgeoisie press. The
USA Congress has taken a decision acknowledging 24th April, as a
"Day of Inhumanity and Armenian Genocide". In France and other
countries, the surroundings of administrative parties, are working
actively. The Armenian Communist Party Central Committee, based on
their experience in the 60th anniversary, requests that that the
24th April is acknowledged by the Soviet Socialist Congress Board as
"Remembrance day of genocide victims" and that the Armenian Communist
Party First Secretary makes a speech on the radio and TV and that
these texts are released in the Armenian press.
To be more open, the Secretariat and ourselves, have decided to put
this matter on the agenda for discussion in the Politbureau, in order
to see the plusses and minuses to be created by such a decision of
the Armenian Parliament
* CIA Heats up this Matter
DEMIRCIAN: It has been spoken here that the 70th anniversary of
genocide is being strongly heated up by CIA and other harming
organizations. There is a large campaign to distort history,
conferences are being arranged (also at international level), books
and magazines are being printed and TV programs are aired. Some of
them, approve that the Turks which had passed on the side of Russia,
have been also suppressed. The Dashnaks are strengthening their own
position against the Soviet. The information contained in several
channels, show that these present new dangers and that the ideological
situation may deteriorate more. Therefore, we are asked to take the
necessary counter measures, inclusive of the "Genocide memorial day".
I wish to underline again, that our suggestions, are connected
to the large campaigns carried overseas. With instructions of USA
information organizations and to spread the anti-Soviet animosity,
they are trying to accuse our country and republic for remaining
uninterested in the 1915 incidents. These ideas are spread around,
through the students being educated in our country and Armenians
placed in our country who infiltrate into Armenia. But I trust that
you will support our suggestions so that we are perfectly organized
not to permit usage of the 70th Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide
for purposes against the Soviets.
* "Wouldn't this increase animosity?"
TIHONOV: What is your opinion, wouldn't the TV and radio speeches
increase the animosity between Turks and Armenians?
DEMIRCIAN: In this speech we generally speak of the success of the
Soviet Armenia and that the genocide was organized by the powers in
the administration of, Turkey of the Sultans.
GRISIN: On this subject, we have concluded 70 years, without need
of a decision of the Armenian Republic High Committee. Now, we are
asked to take a decision. Why is this necessary?
GROMIKO: We have to discuss this matter objectively, without
sentiments. Of course this was an arrogant murder of Sultan's Turkey
and Tsarist Russia. But as you know, during the period of Lenin who
presided oure state for six years, these subjects were never brought
on the agenda.
POMAROV: But at that time, a revolution had taken place in Turkey.
* "Tasnak's tunes, cannot be taken as a basis for us"
GROMIKO: That was a bourgeois revolution. Therefore we are faced with
such a question: Is it necessary for us to make such an accusation
for Turkey? To my opinion, Tashnaks hate the Soviet Rule, more than
they hate the Turks. Hence, they and their tunes cannot be taken an
as a basis by us. And all this, is being done out of our borders,
during the race of winning votes of the Armenians. Therefore, it does
not look convincing to me, to depend on all types of actions such as
this, in other countries. Yet, of course we should find a way out for
expression of feelings of the people. But is it necessary to do this
with the decision of the Armenian Parliament? As you know, we do not
have any ceremonies even on the date of death of Lenin. Therefore,
I am much hesitant on the subject of the decision to be taken by the
Armenian Parliament.
In the report of the Central Committee of the Armenian Communist
Party they suggest that articles are printed in the Soviet Press
relating to genocide. To my opinion, it is necessary that we do not
involve our "heavy cannons" in this matter. Something must be done
in Armenia and the speech of the first secretary of the Central
Committee can be printed as well, but it is not possible that we
approve the rest. If Turks were to build nuclear rockets in their
country, this will form a larger threat. At the end of my comments,
I want to underline the following: Suggestions that have been made,
should be reconsidered, and additional steps to be taken by us should
be reduced to the minimum, after evaluating how dire they are for us.
* "The decision, will form a document of animosity against Turkey"
ZIMYANIN: Such ceremonies, must be made at the level of civilian
organizations, and not the State. It is clear for me that the
decision of the Armenian Parliament will be a document of animosity
against Turkey. This, undoubtedly will strain the Turkish-Russian
relations. We will profit nothing from this. Therefore, Comrade
Demircian and Armenian Communist Party Central Committee should take
the initiative and act according to the classification position of the
people. And all ceremonies must be carried in Armenia, at civilian
level, without any type of attack on Turkey. In general, relating
to the 70th anniversary of the genocide, I support the opinion of
activities at civilian-historical level.
* "Americans will profit from this"
TIHONOV: I am not kidding. When reading the suggestions of the
Armenian Communist party, I am stressed. We are just beginning to put
our relations with Turkey in order. During my visit to this country,
Turkish leaders have named the Soviet Union as a friendly country and
assured that they will not permit installation of rockets in their
country pointed to us. It is clear that the decision of the Armenian
Parliament, will strain the Turkish-Russian relations and will pull
Moscow into the matter, whether we want it or not. I am asking,
who will profit from this ? It is clear that the Americans will profit.
During my last visit to Turkey, the President and Prime Minister of
Turkey, gave examples of the speeches of Armenian authorities, and
complained for 40 minutes for the Turkish antagonism in this country.
We should not permit this. In general sense, we should always remember
that Turkey holds Istanbul and Canakkale straits, and according
to a suitable article of the Montreux treaty, they can always lock
the passages.
On this subject, I read the article printed in "Pravda" in 1975. In
that article, there are only five lines about the genocide. And
this is correct because our country has lived through much greater
calamities. For example, in White Russia, the fascists have killed
one of every four persons.
Our putting relations into order with the Finns, Greeks and Turks,
causes extreme anger of the Americans, and they want to harm
our relations with neighboring countries, using this genocide
anniversary. It would be desirable that in Armenia, the workers
would tirelessly cooperate with party organization at all groups
without tiring, and the matter of international conduct is organized
and controlled better. Therefore, we should think deeper on this
subject and find a solution at lower levels, without effecting the
international relations.
* "For 70 years, we did not take such a decision, and we shouldn't:
GRISIN: We understand the feelings of our Armenian comrades and
their initiative for genocide anniversary. But I also think that the
international situation , dictates us to act with extreme prudence.
This is because, all decisions taken by American Congress, do not
suit the interests of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Armenia.
Therefore, we should not depend on those decisions. In a general
sense, I have serious doubts regarding the necessity of the Armenian
Parliament's taking a decision about the genocide day. For 70
years, such a decision has not be taken and we should not take this
decision. May be we can print some articles in the central press,
and breakdown the ambitions of the imperialist powers to foment
nationalistic ambitions. There is one clear matter. We have to
unite the Soviet citizens better, and mobilize the Armenian party
organization to inspire them with an international spirit.
CEBRIKOV: Of course. We have to preserve our previous actions, without
hampering our relations with Turkey. We cannot give up the ceremonies
to which the people is used to.
TIHONOV: But, we never had any such thing at the time of Lenin!
GORBACOV: If we did not have hesitations, the Secretariat would not
have had it included in the agenda of the Politbureau of the Central
Committee. In principle, we should not permit new activities.
KUZNETSOZ: This is correct.
GORBACOV: We could have permitted only an article in "Pravda" reminding
the genocide. As regards the ceremonies in Armenia, in principle, we
should maintaoin our people's class position and keep their success
in the Soviet Armenia, above the duties, which must be executed by
the communists in Armenia.
Particularly, we as the Communist Party Central Committee, have a
plan for the future development of Erivan, May be such a decision
can be taken on this subject prior to the genocide anniversary.
MEMBERS of the POLITBUREAU: This is correct.
Decision taken and approved.
--- WHO is WHO:
M.S. Gorbachov: 1980 -Elected to Politbureau ; 1985- became Party's
General Secretary when Cermenko died He became President of the State
in 1988
K. Demircian - First Secretary of Armenian Communist Party
N.A. Tihonov: Prime Minister at that time
V.V. Grisin : Soviet Communist Party First Secretary, 1967-1985,
member of Politbureau since 1971
A.A. Gromiko : Elected to Politburea in 1973. Minister of Foreign
Affairs period of 1957 - 1985
B.N. Ponomaryov: Soviet Communist Party Secretary
M.V. Zimyanin: Pravda Newspaper editor in chief
V.M. Cebrikov : Head of KGB
Translated from Turkish "AYDINLIK" weekly, dt. 7.01.07 No.2016
Journal of Turkish Weekly, Turkey
Jan 10 2006
* "These subjects never were on our agenda in Lenin times"
In the meeting of 21 Feb. 1985 of the Politbureau under the presidency
of Gorbachov, the genocide charges were discussed.
However, since there was not a similar example in history, and it
would damage the relations with Turkey to the benefit of USA, the
proposition to announce April 24 as Genocide Day, was rejected.
It has been discovered that during the meeting of the Soviet Union
Communist Party's Polit Bureau held on Feb.21,1985, the subject
of genocide was discussed. An Azerbaijan congressman and scholar
Prof.Dr. Cemil Hasanli, during his research studies in the USA National
Security Archives, found the minutes relative to this meeting which
were brought from Russian state archives. The subject was discussed in
the meeting, under the heading of "Matters to be done, in connection
with the 70th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide" of the meeting
agenda and was brought in the agenda by Gorbachov.
K. Demircian, first secretary of the Armenian Communist Party,
had sent a letter to the Central Committee of the Soviet Communist
Party; the subject was talked over in the Central Committee and later
transferred to the agenda of the meeting of the Polit Bureau.
Those present in the meeting, were M.S. Gorbachov, H.A.Aliyev,
V.I.Vorotnikov, V.V.Grisin, A.A. Gromiko, G.V. Romanov, M.S.
Solomontsev, N. Tihonov, P.N. Demircev, V.I. Dolgih, V.V. Kuznetsov,
B.N. Ponomaryov, V.M. Cebrikov, M.M. Zimyanin, I.V. Kapitonov, Y.K.
Ligacev and N.I. Rijkov. Despite the serious efforts of Gorbachov and
Demircian, the Politbureau did not approve to announce April 24th,
as the Memorial Day of Genocide victims. Experienced members of the
Poliutbureau such as N. Tihonov, A. Gromiko, V. Grisin, stood against
this attempt.
We are releasing for the first time an explicit summary of this meeting
statement, stamped "Top Secret". Translation of the contents from
Russian, has been made by Dr. Mayis Alizade. (Note: This translation
into English is made from the article in Turkish and hence any probable
unintended differences should be excused. SSA)
21st February 1985
GORBACHOV: This subject has been discussed in the Secretariat of the
Central Committee. As you are aware, there were no activities in our
country relating to the 50th anniversary of the genocide. Some time
ago, the subject of the 60th year of genocide was discussed with
Leonid Ilic Brejnev and Mihail Andreyevic Suslov. At that time it
was decided to take some actions which were approved. And now in the
year 1985, in the 70th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide which
was organized by Sultan's Turkey h,as been put on our agenda for
additional action. According to the organs of the Armenian Party,
these suggestions are brought to ell iminate the accusations of the
of the enemies of the people, to secure the position of the people
classes of the Soviet Union relative to this issue and drop them from
the agenda. There is a large fanfare in the bourgeoisie press. The
USA Congress has taken a decision acknowledging 24th April, as a
"Day of Inhumanity and Armenian Genocide". In France and other
countries, the surroundings of administrative parties, are working
actively. The Armenian Communist Party Central Committee, based on
their experience in the 60th anniversary, requests that that the
24th April is acknowledged by the Soviet Socialist Congress Board as
"Remembrance day of genocide victims" and that the Armenian Communist
Party First Secretary makes a speech on the radio and TV and that
these texts are released in the Armenian press.
To be more open, the Secretariat and ourselves, have decided to put
this matter on the agenda for discussion in the Politbureau, in order
to see the plusses and minuses to be created by such a decision of
the Armenian Parliament
* CIA Heats up this Matter
DEMIRCIAN: It has been spoken here that the 70th anniversary of
genocide is being strongly heated up by CIA and other harming
organizations. There is a large campaign to distort history,
conferences are being arranged (also at international level), books
and magazines are being printed and TV programs are aired. Some of
them, approve that the Turks which had passed on the side of Russia,
have been also suppressed. The Dashnaks are strengthening their own
position against the Soviet. The information contained in several
channels, show that these present new dangers and that the ideological
situation may deteriorate more. Therefore, we are asked to take the
necessary counter measures, inclusive of the "Genocide memorial day".
I wish to underline again, that our suggestions, are connected
to the large campaigns carried overseas. With instructions of USA
information organizations and to spread the anti-Soviet animosity,
they are trying to accuse our country and republic for remaining
uninterested in the 1915 incidents. These ideas are spread around,
through the students being educated in our country and Armenians
placed in our country who infiltrate into Armenia. But I trust that
you will support our suggestions so that we are perfectly organized
not to permit usage of the 70th Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide
for purposes against the Soviets.
* "Wouldn't this increase animosity?"
TIHONOV: What is your opinion, wouldn't the TV and radio speeches
increase the animosity between Turks and Armenians?
DEMIRCIAN: In this speech we generally speak of the success of the
Soviet Armenia and that the genocide was organized by the powers in
the administration of, Turkey of the Sultans.
GRISIN: On this subject, we have concluded 70 years, without need
of a decision of the Armenian Republic High Committee. Now, we are
asked to take a decision. Why is this necessary?
GROMIKO: We have to discuss this matter objectively, without
sentiments. Of course this was an arrogant murder of Sultan's Turkey
and Tsarist Russia. But as you know, during the period of Lenin who
presided oure state for six years, these subjects were never brought
on the agenda.
POMAROV: But at that time, a revolution had taken place in Turkey.
* "Tasnak's tunes, cannot be taken as a basis for us"
GROMIKO: That was a bourgeois revolution. Therefore we are faced with
such a question: Is it necessary for us to make such an accusation
for Turkey? To my opinion, Tashnaks hate the Soviet Rule, more than
they hate the Turks. Hence, they and their tunes cannot be taken an
as a basis by us. And all this, is being done out of our borders,
during the race of winning votes of the Armenians. Therefore, it does
not look convincing to me, to depend on all types of actions such as
this, in other countries. Yet, of course we should find a way out for
expression of feelings of the people. But is it necessary to do this
with the decision of the Armenian Parliament? As you know, we do not
have any ceremonies even on the date of death of Lenin. Therefore,
I am much hesitant on the subject of the decision to be taken by the
Armenian Parliament.
In the report of the Central Committee of the Armenian Communist
Party they suggest that articles are printed in the Soviet Press
relating to genocide. To my opinion, it is necessary that we do not
involve our "heavy cannons" in this matter. Something must be done
in Armenia and the speech of the first secretary of the Central
Committee can be printed as well, but it is not possible that we
approve the rest. If Turks were to build nuclear rockets in their
country, this will form a larger threat. At the end of my comments,
I want to underline the following: Suggestions that have been made,
should be reconsidered, and additional steps to be taken by us should
be reduced to the minimum, after evaluating how dire they are for us.
* "The decision, will form a document of animosity against Turkey"
ZIMYANIN: Such ceremonies, must be made at the level of civilian
organizations, and not the State. It is clear for me that the
decision of the Armenian Parliament will be a document of animosity
against Turkey. This, undoubtedly will strain the Turkish-Russian
relations. We will profit nothing from this. Therefore, Comrade
Demircian and Armenian Communist Party Central Committee should take
the initiative and act according to the classification position of the
people. And all ceremonies must be carried in Armenia, at civilian
level, without any type of attack on Turkey. In general, relating
to the 70th anniversary of the genocide, I support the opinion of
activities at civilian-historical level.
* "Americans will profit from this"
TIHONOV: I am not kidding. When reading the suggestions of the
Armenian Communist party, I am stressed. We are just beginning to put
our relations with Turkey in order. During my visit to this country,
Turkish leaders have named the Soviet Union as a friendly country and
assured that they will not permit installation of rockets in their
country pointed to us. It is clear that the decision of the Armenian
Parliament, will strain the Turkish-Russian relations and will pull
Moscow into the matter, whether we want it or not. I am asking,
who will profit from this ? It is clear that the Americans will profit.
During my last visit to Turkey, the President and Prime Minister of
Turkey, gave examples of the speeches of Armenian authorities, and
complained for 40 minutes for the Turkish antagonism in this country.
We should not permit this. In general sense, we should always remember
that Turkey holds Istanbul and Canakkale straits, and according
to a suitable article of the Montreux treaty, they can always lock
the passages.
On this subject, I read the article printed in "Pravda" in 1975. In
that article, there are only five lines about the genocide. And
this is correct because our country has lived through much greater
calamities. For example, in White Russia, the fascists have killed
one of every four persons.
Our putting relations into order with the Finns, Greeks and Turks,
causes extreme anger of the Americans, and they want to harm
our relations with neighboring countries, using this genocide
anniversary. It would be desirable that in Armenia, the workers
would tirelessly cooperate with party organization at all groups
without tiring, and the matter of international conduct is organized
and controlled better. Therefore, we should think deeper on this
subject and find a solution at lower levels, without effecting the
international relations.
* "For 70 years, we did not take such a decision, and we shouldn't:
GRISIN: We understand the feelings of our Armenian comrades and
their initiative for genocide anniversary. But I also think that the
international situation , dictates us to act with extreme prudence.
This is because, all decisions taken by American Congress, do not
suit the interests of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Armenia.
Therefore, we should not depend on those decisions. In a general
sense, I have serious doubts regarding the necessity of the Armenian
Parliament's taking a decision about the genocide day. For 70
years, such a decision has not be taken and we should not take this
decision. May be we can print some articles in the central press,
and breakdown the ambitions of the imperialist powers to foment
nationalistic ambitions. There is one clear matter. We have to
unite the Soviet citizens better, and mobilize the Armenian party
organization to inspire them with an international spirit.
CEBRIKOV: Of course. We have to preserve our previous actions, without
hampering our relations with Turkey. We cannot give up the ceremonies
to which the people is used to.
TIHONOV: But, we never had any such thing at the time of Lenin!
GORBACOV: If we did not have hesitations, the Secretariat would not
have had it included in the agenda of the Politbureau of the Central
Committee. In principle, we should not permit new activities.
KUZNETSOZ: This is correct.
GORBACOV: We could have permitted only an article in "Pravda" reminding
the genocide. As regards the ceremonies in Armenia, in principle, we
should maintaoin our people's class position and keep their success
in the Soviet Armenia, above the duties, which must be executed by
the communists in Armenia.
Particularly, we as the Communist Party Central Committee, have a
plan for the future development of Erivan, May be such a decision
can be taken on this subject prior to the genocide anniversary.
MEMBERS of the POLITBUREAU: This is correct.
Decision taken and approved.
--- WHO is WHO:
M.S. Gorbachov: 1980 -Elected to Politbureau ; 1985- became Party's
General Secretary when Cermenko died He became President of the State
in 1988
K. Demircian - First Secretary of Armenian Communist Party
N.A. Tihonov: Prime Minister at that time
V.V. Grisin : Soviet Communist Party First Secretary, 1967-1985,
member of Politbureau since 1971
A.A. Gromiko : Elected to Politburea in 1973. Minister of Foreign
Affairs period of 1957 - 1985
B.N. Ponomaryov: Soviet Communist Party Secretary
M.V. Zimyanin: Pravda Newspaper editor in chief
V.M. Cebrikov : Head of KGB
Translated from Turkish "AYDINLIK" weekly, dt. 7.01.07 No.2016