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KAMAL ABDULLA: THERE WAS NO SIGN OF LIFE IN SHUSHA
Azeri Press Agency, Azerbaijan
June 29 2007
"I think the countries mediating in the settlement did not approve
the project" Kamal Abdulla, rector of Baku Slavic University,
corresponding member of Azerbaijan National Academy of Sciences,
one of the intellectuals visiting Armenia has been interview by the APA
- How did you meet the proposal on visiting Karabakh?
- It was unexpected for me. Azerbaijani ambassador to Russia Polad
Bulbuloglu offered this to me. The nobleness of the mission made me
believe in the importance of the visit and I agreed to. The aim was
that a group of Azerbaijani and Armenian intellectuals would visit
Nagorno Karabakh, Shusha and Yerevan, watch the state of Azerbaijani
and Armenian monuments, at the same time Armenia intellectuals would
watch the state of Armenian monuments in Azerbaijan. There were
impressions in both countries that all monuments were destroyed. We
had no idea what Shusha is like. We witnessed the situation, Karabakh
reality. I was trying to look at Karabakh lands from the eyes of
Azerbaijanis deported from there for many years.
<>b>- What was Shusha like?
- There was no sign of life in Shusha. There are ruinous houses,
remains of cultural monuments. Only four walls of our mosque in
Shusha remain. There are stoned in front it, as though it will be
repaired. One of the places we visited in Shusha was the memorial
house of Polad Bulbuloglu's father great singer Bulbul. Only four
walls remained from the house. Bulbul's bust was covered with bullet
holes. It was unrecognizable. I can not explain firing on a cultural
monument. Let Armenians explain it. They planned our route. We wanted
to see Jidir plane, they refused to take us there. They said the
roads are in bad conditions.
- What was the aim of your visit?
- This problem will one day be solved, either peacefully, or in other
way. We are obliged to be Armenia's neighbor after the problem is
solved. This is our fate. We had pacific times and war period. How
will these two nations live after the problem is solved? Will be
able to live with Armenians? We paid this visit to find answers to
these questions.
- How did Armenians meet you?
- Very well. May be there were dissatisfied people. But the visit
was accompanied by positive people. Our delegation was composed of
Azerbaijani ambassador to Russia Polad Bulbuolglu, rector of Baku
Music Academy Farhad Badalbayli, chief of Theater Figures Union
Azerpasha Nematov and famous engineer-architect Ilhami Fataliyev.
Ilhamli Fataliyev once chaired the reconstruction of cultural monuments
in Shusha. A lot of civil Armenians recognized him they greeted him.
- Do Armenian senior officials impede these meetings?
- No. We did not feel serious pressure, to tell the truth, but impact
on the relations was felt.
- How was the condition of Azerbaijani cemetery?
- They did not take us to many places under the pretext of road.
There was remained no trace of cemetery. One of the interesting
factors is that though our route was Barda-Shusha, they did not go
there through Aghdam. We went there through Aghdere. This fact also
has moral side. They did not want us to see Aghdam. Half-hour way
was two hours.
- How did you get there?
- We went there by car, passed Aghdere, Khankendi, then Shusha,
Yerevan-Baku.
- How was the living condition in Shusha?
- There was not life breath in Shusha. Of course, people are living
there, but there is not life breath there. People are living in
Khankendi, the children are going to schools. We can say the same about
Aghdere. We did not see any car, any man while driving. I appeal to
community representatives, not to politicians. We examined whether
intercourse, contact was possible with Armenians or not. Are there
contact points?
- Are there?
- I think yes. Because, our countries are neighbors. Nagorno Karabakh
conflict will be solved sooner or later. I think that mutual visits
will help to the solution of the conflict. After passing contact line
we met Armenian side without mediators and talked. There was no any
mediator, OSCE mediators, Russian representatives there. We sat and
talked. We thought whether we can talk. We-five people trusted them.
- Was there any problem, argument on the way?
- After passing the contact front line the military men told us that
they were aware of ceasefire. The ceasefire won't be violated in any
case. We were offered to wear protective clothing for being sure. But
we objected to such an offer. Both they and we-intellectuals refused
to wear "bronjet". So we counted on each other though it is very
strange. But the OSCE official put on bronjilet and helmet.
- What did you discuss while meeting with Gukasyan and Kocharyan?
- No political issue was discussed. We were searching for the common
point, not for principal issues. There was no any arguing discussion.
We were taken to the museum of Armenian producer Karacanov. Georgians
claim that Karacanov be Georgian and Armenians demand that he be
Armenian while Karacanov considers himself Azeri. We were trying to
check common points whether we could seat nearby and talk or not. Our
political leaders check such points on his side. The rest of the
intellectuals are to check them also to see if we can understand each
other or not. They also stepped masterly over sharp angels.
- Was this meeting agreed during the Presidents' meeting?
- I cannot say, but I think no. As this meeting was the part of the
project of the ambassadors of both countries to Russia. We were seeking
for this contact in the fire that military men were exchanging. The
fire-arms we were facing were the contact. We made an effort to find
the contact of human relationships.
- The Ambassadors of the two countries to Russia initiated the visit.
The version of Russia's having planned the visit comes to mind
at first...
- I would not say. On the contrary, the countries mediating in the
settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict did not approve the project
as we organized the meeting without any mediation and succeeded.
- Did you touch on the issue regarding our monuments in Karabakh
which are in critical condition at your meeting with Gukasian?
- Of course, we did. We even proposed that our specialists participate
in the restoration of our monuments together with Armenian ones. The
symbolic aspect of the issue is that the warring parties are jointly
involved in removing the aftermath of the war.
So, why not those who destructed the Shusha mosque restore it
together with those intending to rebuild it?! Our proposal was met
normally. Anyway, they came to realize our serious intention.
- What about the Armenian visitors? What did they visit in Baku?
- We took them to Armenian church. They witnessed a clean, tidy
church. The Armenian visitors also viewed the rich library of the
church where a lot of Armenian books are kept. The church is not
operating, but it is in normal condition. This is our attitude to
God's house. This antidote is sourced from our culture.
- Did the Armenian visitors met with Nizami Bahmanov, head of
Azerbaijani community of Nagorno Karabakh?
- No, as it was not a political visit.
- But. The Azerbaijani visitors did meet with Arkadi Gukasyan, head
of Armenian community of Nagorno Karabakh...
- Well, that is right. We got permission from him to visit Shusha. We
needed to go to Shusha. That is the matter of other time.
- Did you touch on the issue on Azerbaijani prisoners of war?
- The aim of this visit was to get an idea of the condition of the
captivated cultural monuments. We did get familiar with the condition.
- Will you further continue making such visits?
- Well, it is difficult to say. It depends on the development of
political processes.
- The visitors were received by Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev.
What was on focus at the meeting?
- The President received the mission and underlined the importance
of that. The societies should be prepared to possible political
decisions. We are to find out whether the hostility will last for
many years, for centuries or we can live together in a peaceful
atmosphere. There are some who think the hostility will last forever.
We wanted to monitor the real situation and looked into their eyes.
The door has opened... I hope it will be followed by political
decisions soon. The Armenian side witnessed how decisive is the
Azerbaijani president in his position. I would say this visit woke
them up from euphoria.
- What is the living condition is Armenia? What impressions did
Armenians got from Baku?
- I think we passed central streets of Yerevan. We saw two or three
new constructions. And what Armenians saw in Baku instead? I find it
difficult to express the very meaning in their eyes when they were in
Baku.... We could demonstrate our economic power to them by our city. I
believe the Baku night turned to be one of strange nights for them.
They realized that they have achieved nothing. We could demonstrate
this reality to five Armenian intellectuals. That was the very aim
of our visit.
Azeri Press Agency, Azerbaijan
June 29 2007
"I think the countries mediating in the settlement did not approve
the project" Kamal Abdulla, rector of Baku Slavic University,
corresponding member of Azerbaijan National Academy of Sciences,
one of the intellectuals visiting Armenia has been interview by the APA
- How did you meet the proposal on visiting Karabakh?
- It was unexpected for me. Azerbaijani ambassador to Russia Polad
Bulbuloglu offered this to me. The nobleness of the mission made me
believe in the importance of the visit and I agreed to. The aim was
that a group of Azerbaijani and Armenian intellectuals would visit
Nagorno Karabakh, Shusha and Yerevan, watch the state of Azerbaijani
and Armenian monuments, at the same time Armenia intellectuals would
watch the state of Armenian monuments in Azerbaijan. There were
impressions in both countries that all monuments were destroyed. We
had no idea what Shusha is like. We witnessed the situation, Karabakh
reality. I was trying to look at Karabakh lands from the eyes of
Azerbaijanis deported from there for many years.
<>b>- What was Shusha like?
- There was no sign of life in Shusha. There are ruinous houses,
remains of cultural monuments. Only four walls of our mosque in
Shusha remain. There are stoned in front it, as though it will be
repaired. One of the places we visited in Shusha was the memorial
house of Polad Bulbuloglu's father great singer Bulbul. Only four
walls remained from the house. Bulbul's bust was covered with bullet
holes. It was unrecognizable. I can not explain firing on a cultural
monument. Let Armenians explain it. They planned our route. We wanted
to see Jidir plane, they refused to take us there. They said the
roads are in bad conditions.
- What was the aim of your visit?
- This problem will one day be solved, either peacefully, or in other
way. We are obliged to be Armenia's neighbor after the problem is
solved. This is our fate. We had pacific times and war period. How
will these two nations live after the problem is solved? Will be
able to live with Armenians? We paid this visit to find answers to
these questions.
- How did Armenians meet you?
- Very well. May be there were dissatisfied people. But the visit
was accompanied by positive people. Our delegation was composed of
Azerbaijani ambassador to Russia Polad Bulbuolglu, rector of Baku
Music Academy Farhad Badalbayli, chief of Theater Figures Union
Azerpasha Nematov and famous engineer-architect Ilhami Fataliyev.
Ilhamli Fataliyev once chaired the reconstruction of cultural monuments
in Shusha. A lot of civil Armenians recognized him they greeted him.
- Do Armenian senior officials impede these meetings?
- No. We did not feel serious pressure, to tell the truth, but impact
on the relations was felt.
- How was the condition of Azerbaijani cemetery?
- They did not take us to many places under the pretext of road.
There was remained no trace of cemetery. One of the interesting
factors is that though our route was Barda-Shusha, they did not go
there through Aghdam. We went there through Aghdere. This fact also
has moral side. They did not want us to see Aghdam. Half-hour way
was two hours.
- How did you get there?
- We went there by car, passed Aghdere, Khankendi, then Shusha,
Yerevan-Baku.
- How was the living condition in Shusha?
- There was not life breath in Shusha. Of course, people are living
there, but there is not life breath there. People are living in
Khankendi, the children are going to schools. We can say the same about
Aghdere. We did not see any car, any man while driving. I appeal to
community representatives, not to politicians. We examined whether
intercourse, contact was possible with Armenians or not. Are there
contact points?
- Are there?
- I think yes. Because, our countries are neighbors. Nagorno Karabakh
conflict will be solved sooner or later. I think that mutual visits
will help to the solution of the conflict. After passing contact line
we met Armenian side without mediators and talked. There was no any
mediator, OSCE mediators, Russian representatives there. We sat and
talked. We thought whether we can talk. We-five people trusted them.
- Was there any problem, argument on the way?
- After passing the contact front line the military men told us that
they were aware of ceasefire. The ceasefire won't be violated in any
case. We were offered to wear protective clothing for being sure. But
we objected to such an offer. Both they and we-intellectuals refused
to wear "bronjet". So we counted on each other though it is very
strange. But the OSCE official put on bronjilet and helmet.
- What did you discuss while meeting with Gukasyan and Kocharyan?
- No political issue was discussed. We were searching for the common
point, not for principal issues. There was no any arguing discussion.
We were taken to the museum of Armenian producer Karacanov. Georgians
claim that Karacanov be Georgian and Armenians demand that he be
Armenian while Karacanov considers himself Azeri. We were trying to
check common points whether we could seat nearby and talk or not. Our
political leaders check such points on his side. The rest of the
intellectuals are to check them also to see if we can understand each
other or not. They also stepped masterly over sharp angels.
- Was this meeting agreed during the Presidents' meeting?
- I cannot say, but I think no. As this meeting was the part of the
project of the ambassadors of both countries to Russia. We were seeking
for this contact in the fire that military men were exchanging. The
fire-arms we were facing were the contact. We made an effort to find
the contact of human relationships.
- The Ambassadors of the two countries to Russia initiated the visit.
The version of Russia's having planned the visit comes to mind
at first...
- I would not say. On the contrary, the countries mediating in the
settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict did not approve the project
as we organized the meeting without any mediation and succeeded.
- Did you touch on the issue regarding our monuments in Karabakh
which are in critical condition at your meeting with Gukasian?
- Of course, we did. We even proposed that our specialists participate
in the restoration of our monuments together with Armenian ones. The
symbolic aspect of the issue is that the warring parties are jointly
involved in removing the aftermath of the war.
So, why not those who destructed the Shusha mosque restore it
together with those intending to rebuild it?! Our proposal was met
normally. Anyway, they came to realize our serious intention.
- What about the Armenian visitors? What did they visit in Baku?
- We took them to Armenian church. They witnessed a clean, tidy
church. The Armenian visitors also viewed the rich library of the
church where a lot of Armenian books are kept. The church is not
operating, but it is in normal condition. This is our attitude to
God's house. This antidote is sourced from our culture.
- Did the Armenian visitors met with Nizami Bahmanov, head of
Azerbaijani community of Nagorno Karabakh?
- No, as it was not a political visit.
- But. The Azerbaijani visitors did meet with Arkadi Gukasyan, head
of Armenian community of Nagorno Karabakh...
- Well, that is right. We got permission from him to visit Shusha. We
needed to go to Shusha. That is the matter of other time.
- Did you touch on the issue on Azerbaijani prisoners of war?
- The aim of this visit was to get an idea of the condition of the
captivated cultural monuments. We did get familiar with the condition.
- Will you further continue making such visits?
- Well, it is difficult to say. It depends on the development of
political processes.
- The visitors were received by Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev.
What was on focus at the meeting?
- The President received the mission and underlined the importance
of that. The societies should be prepared to possible political
decisions. We are to find out whether the hostility will last for
many years, for centuries or we can live together in a peaceful
atmosphere. There are some who think the hostility will last forever.
We wanted to monitor the real situation and looked into their eyes.
The door has opened... I hope it will be followed by political
decisions soon. The Armenian side witnessed how decisive is the
Azerbaijani president in his position. I would say this visit woke
them up from euphoria.
- What is the living condition is Armenia? What impressions did
Armenians got from Baku?
- I think we passed central streets of Yerevan. We saw two or three
new constructions. And what Armenians saw in Baku instead? I find it
difficult to express the very meaning in their eyes when they were in
Baku.... We could demonstrate our economic power to them by our city. I
believe the Baku night turned to be one of strange nights for them.
They realized that they have achieved nothing. We could demonstrate
this reality to five Armenian intellectuals. That was the very aim
of our visit.