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A CONVERSATION WITH BARBARA COLORSO, WELL-KNOWN AUTHOR, EDUCATOR AND SPEAKER
Norm Goldman
American Chronicle, CA
May 29 2007
Title: Extraordinary Evil: A Brief History of Genocide...and why
it matters
ISBN: 10:0670066044: 13:978-0670066049
Today, Norm Goldman, Editor of Bookpleasures.com is honored to have
as our guest, Barbara Coloroso who is an internationally recognized
speaker and authors in the area of parenting, teaching, school
discipline, non-violent conflict resolution and reconciliatory justice.
She is the author of three best-selling books dealing with parenting
and she has now turned her attention to writing about the history
of genocide with her recently published tome Extraordinary Evil:
A Brief History of Genocide...and why it matters
Good day Barbara and thanks for participating in our interview.
Norm:
Please tell our readers a little bit about your personal and
professional background and what motivated you to write Extraordinary
Evil: A Brief History of Genocide which is far different than your
other books? As a follow up, what compelled you to write the book?
Barbara:
I write Extraordinary Evil: A Brief History of Genocide...and Why It
Matters as an educator, parent, and former nun. All three of these
influence and color this text. I work in Rwanda with orphans from
the 1994 genocide. I began the work shortly after I finished writing
The Bully, The Bullied, and the Bystander. Asked to speak at the
University of Rwanda on that book, I agreed with the understanding
that I would demonstrate that it was a short walk from bullying to
hate crimes to genocide. It is not a giant leap.
As survivors of the genocide began identifying the various bully
and bystander roles that were played out in 1994, it became apparent
to me that the walk was even shorter than I had thought and that it
was true that genocide had its roots in utter contempt for another
human being. Genocide is not an unimaginable horror. Every genocide
throughout history has been thoroughly imagined, meticulously
planned, and brutally executed. The pain of a "moral world turned
on its head" does not begin with the machete cuts of the Hutu Power,
the gas chambers of the Nazis, the death marches of the Young Turks.
Norm:
What is the underlying message or theme of Extraordinary Evil:
A Brief History of Genocide?
Barbara:
The underlying theme is that it is a short walk from bullying to hate
crimes to genocide-genocide is the most extreme form of bullying-a
far too common system of behaviors that is learned in childhood and
rooted in contempt for another human being who has been deemed by
the bully and his or her accomplices, to be worthless, inferior, and
undeserving of respecr. The tragedy of genocide has many rehearsals
that weaken the moral inhibitions against violence, publicity that
spreads bigotry and intolerance, a backdrop that establishes the
climate, ominous sounds that signal the beginning and the end, scripts
that heighten the tension and fuel the contempt, six scenes that seal
the victim's fate, a slew of character actors, and an international
audience that either fails to hinder or actually helps energize the
performance of extraordinary evil by ordinary people.
Norm:
Why do you think this is an important book at this time? What are
you goals for this book? What do you hope to achieve?
Barbara:
Through an examination of three clearly defined genocides---of
the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire; the Jews, Roma, and Sinti in
Europe; and the Tutsi in Rwanda, I try to deconstruct the causes of
genocide and its consequences, both to the immediate victims and to
the fabric of the world community at large. Through the study of this
deconstruction, I propose conditions I think must exist in order to
make the commitment of "Never Again" into more than an empty slogan.
The acts of genocide are occurring more frequently and are in the
public's consciousness. If that consciousness can be informed perhaps
the empty slogan of Never Again can become real. .
Genocide is not an unimaginable horror. Everygenocide throughout
history has been thoroughly imagined, meticulously planned, and
brutally executed. The pain of a "moral world turned on its head" does
not begin with the machete cuts of the Hutu Power, the gas chambers
of the Nazis, the death marches of the Young Turks. To recognize the
beginning is step one in eradicating this horro.
Norm:
Can you explain some of your research techniques, and how you found
sources for your book? How did you go about deciding which material
to include and which to exclude?
Barbara:
As concept and as a fact, the slaughter of whole groups of people by
other seemingly ordinary human beings has been a subject of enduring,
increasingly urgent interst to me. My introduction was a copy of Elie
Wiesel's Night, which I picked up from a large bin of used books while
passing through an airport in the early 1970's. I had a basic knowledge
of the genocide of the Jews and was familiar with Wiesel's writings,
but nothing prepared me for his terrifying personal account of the
horrors of the Auschwitz concentration campy.
Haunted by Wiesel's story, I began my own study of what Hannah Arendt
has described as the "banality of evil." In particular, I wanted
to explore what in our dispositions and situations could possibly
allow such evil to be perpetrated by ordinary people, without shame,
compassion, or mercy. As an educator, I found my "side study" of
genocide seeping into my lectures and writings.
On my lecture tours, I extended stays in Germany, France, Belgium,
North and South America, Australia, and New Zealand tp visit genocide
museums. Memorials both formal and makeshift, mass graves marked
unceremoniously with wooden plaques, landmarks of slaughter around
the world. I sought out movies and surfed the internet for the history
that was omitted from my high school and university courses.
I listened to survivors, and immersed myself in the ever growing
library of books written about particular genocides and genocide in
general. I narrowed my writing down to the three readily identifiable
genocides of the twentieth century and made reference to others as
they related to the premise of the book. No easy task. As people heard
that I was writing this book, they shared so many stories of their
own survival, of the deaths of friends and relatives, grandparents,
parents, siblings, and children. I wanted to include them all to give
voice to those who had been silenced.
Norm:
What challenges or obstacles did you encounter while writing your
book? How did you overcome these challenges?
Barbara:
The biggest challenge was narrowing the material-every story I had to
cut felt like one less voice heard. Another was to be immersed in the
study of such evil day on and day out. I had to remind myself that I
was only studying genocide-those telling me their stories had lived
the horrors.
Norm:
You state in your book: "the concept of genocide in general and the
Rwandan genocide in particular, are macrocosms of the drama known as
bullying." Please explain to our readers why you believe there is a
connection between genocide and bullying.
Barbara:
Both have their foundation in the contempt for another human being.
Instead of seeing the other as a "Thou," both bullies and
genocidaires see the other as an "it," a cockroach, snake, vermin,
dirty dog. Dehumanization is step one towards removing someone or
an entire group of people from our "circle of moral concern." Once
someone or a group is placed outside that circle, those inside can
do anything to the "its" and not feel any shame or compassion.
In genocide, a bully rises to power, is elected to political
office, or seizes control of a government. The bully then espouses
a murderous racial, ethnic, or religious ideology, brings along
an entire cast of characters, (bystanders) and goes about creating
increasingly sinister scenes of what psychiatrist Robert Lifton calls
"atrocity producing situations." These situations in turn invite and
sustain ordinary citizens as they participate in the extermination
of relatives, neighbors, and fellow citizens. The more that ordinary
people perform such tasks as hacking someone to death, the more they
become socialized to the atrocity, the more the atrocity becomes
normalized-made ordinary.
Norm:
Why do you think it has been so difficult for the situations in Sudan,
Rwanda and elsewhere where similar atrocities are committed daily to
capture the interest of the West?
Barbara:
Stereotyping and prejudice play a part in enabling us in the West
to turn a blind eye, but so does the failure of the international
community to recognize it for what it truly is-often masking the
killing with "fighting" terms-"It's ethnic conflict;" "Those people
have been fighting for generations;" "it's a civil war, and we have
no business interfering;" or worse, we in the West see no reason to
step in because we have no vested interest in the country or region-no
oil or gold or diamonds-just human beings being slaughtered.
Norm:
Do you think that democratic societies have enough stability that
minorities are safe from severe persecution?
Barbara:
In a true democracy where everyone matters, yes. But stereotypes, and
prejudices can easily morph into discrimination that all too readily
can slip into persecution. A strong democracy that is a vibrant
entity consists of people who can develop documents, laws, rituals,
and traditions that honor Martin Buber's "I and Thou" and "We"-the
uniqueness of each individual and our common humanity. In a democracy,
when bullying or hate crimes are committed, they are quickly dealt with
and those committing these act are held accountable, thus the spiral
into severe persecution of a group of people is stopped in its tracks.
Norm:
Do you believe the media has done an adequate job in calling to our
attention the bullies of the world? If not, what would you suggest
to improve the situation?
Barbara:
Media was a tool of each of the genocides I studied. The genocidaires
utilized it to spread prejudice, fear, and hatred. Media was also
used to alert the world to what was really happening. Journalists
as witnesses gave voice to those who were being persecuted, raped,
and slaughtered. But speaking truth and describing the horrors does
not mean that those viewing or reading the media will respond in a
deeply caring, compassionate or effective manner to stop the genocide
and offer help[ to those who are targeted.
Norm
How will you be marketing your book?
Barbara:
Same as I promote all of my books-through my lectures, articles,
interviews, and now, starting with your interview, the internet.
Thankyou for this fascinating opportunity.
Norm:
Is there anything else you wish to add that we have not covered and
what is next for Barbara Coloroso?
Barbara:
My next project flows from my book on ethics, Just Because Its Not
Wrong Doesn't Make It Right and this book on genocide, Extraordinary
Evil. In both of these I mention people who were resisters, defenders,
and witnesses-those who stood up for those who were targeted,
pprotected them and gave witness to their plight, who rally against
injustice, who are willing to step in at great cost to themselves. I
want to find out what makes them tick-and can we as parents, educators,
and leaders can learn from them. Can they give us a clue as to how we
can raise a generation of children who care deeply, share generously,
and help willingly? Can they show us the antidotes for the most
virulent agents ripping apart the fabric of our humanity-- hating,
hoarding, and purposely harming one another?
Thanks once again and good luck with all of your future endeavors.
Norm Goldman is the Editor & Publisher of Bookpleasures.com.
Bookpleasures.com is an international community of over 40 reviewers
that come from all walks of life and that review all genre.
---------
NORM GOLDMAN-EDITOR & PUBLISHER BOOKPLEASURES.COM & SKETCHANDTRAVEL.COM
For over thirty five years Norm Goldman practiced as a Title Attorney
and Civil Law Notary in Montreal, Canada.
One day Norm realized he was no longer having fun practising his
profession and he retired to become a book reviewer and travel writer.
Norm reviews books that will make you think and that are related to
business ethics, sports, internet, Judaica, Canadiana, adventure,
historical adventure, travel adventure, contemporary topics, politics,
photography, music, and many more-fiction and non-fiction.
Norm contributes reviews and author interviews to his own site:
BOOKPLEASURES.COM
Bookpleasures.com is an international community of over 40 reviewers
that come from all walks of life and that review all genre. The site
has posted over 1500 reviews and 250 author interviews.
Please come by Bookpleasures.com and check us out. And if you have
a book you wish to have reviewed, please refer to: Bookpleasures'
Submission Guidelines that you will find on the site.
Norm and his wife Lily are also the publishers of their own travel
site Sketchandtravel.com
-------------
http://www.amer icanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?article ID=28201
Norm Goldman
American Chronicle, CA
May 29 2007
Title: Extraordinary Evil: A Brief History of Genocide...and why
it matters
ISBN: 10:0670066044: 13:978-0670066049
Today, Norm Goldman, Editor of Bookpleasures.com is honored to have
as our guest, Barbara Coloroso who is an internationally recognized
speaker and authors in the area of parenting, teaching, school
discipline, non-violent conflict resolution and reconciliatory justice.
She is the author of three best-selling books dealing with parenting
and she has now turned her attention to writing about the history
of genocide with her recently published tome Extraordinary Evil:
A Brief History of Genocide...and why it matters
Good day Barbara and thanks for participating in our interview.
Norm:
Please tell our readers a little bit about your personal and
professional background and what motivated you to write Extraordinary
Evil: A Brief History of Genocide which is far different than your
other books? As a follow up, what compelled you to write the book?
Barbara:
I write Extraordinary Evil: A Brief History of Genocide...and Why It
Matters as an educator, parent, and former nun. All three of these
influence and color this text. I work in Rwanda with orphans from
the 1994 genocide. I began the work shortly after I finished writing
The Bully, The Bullied, and the Bystander. Asked to speak at the
University of Rwanda on that book, I agreed with the understanding
that I would demonstrate that it was a short walk from bullying to
hate crimes to genocide. It is not a giant leap.
As survivors of the genocide began identifying the various bully
and bystander roles that were played out in 1994, it became apparent
to me that the walk was even shorter than I had thought and that it
was true that genocide had its roots in utter contempt for another
human being. Genocide is not an unimaginable horror. Every genocide
throughout history has been thoroughly imagined, meticulously
planned, and brutally executed. The pain of a "moral world turned
on its head" does not begin with the machete cuts of the Hutu Power,
the gas chambers of the Nazis, the death marches of the Young Turks.
Norm:
What is the underlying message or theme of Extraordinary Evil:
A Brief History of Genocide?
Barbara:
The underlying theme is that it is a short walk from bullying to hate
crimes to genocide-genocide is the most extreme form of bullying-a
far too common system of behaviors that is learned in childhood and
rooted in contempt for another human being who has been deemed by
the bully and his or her accomplices, to be worthless, inferior, and
undeserving of respecr. The tragedy of genocide has many rehearsals
that weaken the moral inhibitions against violence, publicity that
spreads bigotry and intolerance, a backdrop that establishes the
climate, ominous sounds that signal the beginning and the end, scripts
that heighten the tension and fuel the contempt, six scenes that seal
the victim's fate, a slew of character actors, and an international
audience that either fails to hinder or actually helps energize the
performance of extraordinary evil by ordinary people.
Norm:
Why do you think this is an important book at this time? What are
you goals for this book? What do you hope to achieve?
Barbara:
Through an examination of three clearly defined genocides---of
the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire; the Jews, Roma, and Sinti in
Europe; and the Tutsi in Rwanda, I try to deconstruct the causes of
genocide and its consequences, both to the immediate victims and to
the fabric of the world community at large. Through the study of this
deconstruction, I propose conditions I think must exist in order to
make the commitment of "Never Again" into more than an empty slogan.
The acts of genocide are occurring more frequently and are in the
public's consciousness. If that consciousness can be informed perhaps
the empty slogan of Never Again can become real. .
Genocide is not an unimaginable horror. Everygenocide throughout
history has been thoroughly imagined, meticulously planned, and
brutally executed. The pain of a "moral world turned on its head" does
not begin with the machete cuts of the Hutu Power, the gas chambers
of the Nazis, the death marches of the Young Turks. To recognize the
beginning is step one in eradicating this horro.
Norm:
Can you explain some of your research techniques, and how you found
sources for your book? How did you go about deciding which material
to include and which to exclude?
Barbara:
As concept and as a fact, the slaughter of whole groups of people by
other seemingly ordinary human beings has been a subject of enduring,
increasingly urgent interst to me. My introduction was a copy of Elie
Wiesel's Night, which I picked up from a large bin of used books while
passing through an airport in the early 1970's. I had a basic knowledge
of the genocide of the Jews and was familiar with Wiesel's writings,
but nothing prepared me for his terrifying personal account of the
horrors of the Auschwitz concentration campy.
Haunted by Wiesel's story, I began my own study of what Hannah Arendt
has described as the "banality of evil." In particular, I wanted
to explore what in our dispositions and situations could possibly
allow such evil to be perpetrated by ordinary people, without shame,
compassion, or mercy. As an educator, I found my "side study" of
genocide seeping into my lectures and writings.
On my lecture tours, I extended stays in Germany, France, Belgium,
North and South America, Australia, and New Zealand tp visit genocide
museums. Memorials both formal and makeshift, mass graves marked
unceremoniously with wooden plaques, landmarks of slaughter around
the world. I sought out movies and surfed the internet for the history
that was omitted from my high school and university courses.
I listened to survivors, and immersed myself in the ever growing
library of books written about particular genocides and genocide in
general. I narrowed my writing down to the three readily identifiable
genocides of the twentieth century and made reference to others as
they related to the premise of the book. No easy task. As people heard
that I was writing this book, they shared so many stories of their
own survival, of the deaths of friends and relatives, grandparents,
parents, siblings, and children. I wanted to include them all to give
voice to those who had been silenced.
Norm:
What challenges or obstacles did you encounter while writing your
book? How did you overcome these challenges?
Barbara:
The biggest challenge was narrowing the material-every story I had to
cut felt like one less voice heard. Another was to be immersed in the
study of such evil day on and day out. I had to remind myself that I
was only studying genocide-those telling me their stories had lived
the horrors.
Norm:
You state in your book: "the concept of genocide in general and the
Rwandan genocide in particular, are macrocosms of the drama known as
bullying." Please explain to our readers why you believe there is a
connection between genocide and bullying.
Barbara:
Both have their foundation in the contempt for another human being.
Instead of seeing the other as a "Thou," both bullies and
genocidaires see the other as an "it," a cockroach, snake, vermin,
dirty dog. Dehumanization is step one towards removing someone or
an entire group of people from our "circle of moral concern." Once
someone or a group is placed outside that circle, those inside can
do anything to the "its" and not feel any shame or compassion.
In genocide, a bully rises to power, is elected to political
office, or seizes control of a government. The bully then espouses
a murderous racial, ethnic, or religious ideology, brings along
an entire cast of characters, (bystanders) and goes about creating
increasingly sinister scenes of what psychiatrist Robert Lifton calls
"atrocity producing situations." These situations in turn invite and
sustain ordinary citizens as they participate in the extermination
of relatives, neighbors, and fellow citizens. The more that ordinary
people perform such tasks as hacking someone to death, the more they
become socialized to the atrocity, the more the atrocity becomes
normalized-made ordinary.
Norm:
Why do you think it has been so difficult for the situations in Sudan,
Rwanda and elsewhere where similar atrocities are committed daily to
capture the interest of the West?
Barbara:
Stereotyping and prejudice play a part in enabling us in the West
to turn a blind eye, but so does the failure of the international
community to recognize it for what it truly is-often masking the
killing with "fighting" terms-"It's ethnic conflict;" "Those people
have been fighting for generations;" "it's a civil war, and we have
no business interfering;" or worse, we in the West see no reason to
step in because we have no vested interest in the country or region-no
oil or gold or diamonds-just human beings being slaughtered.
Norm:
Do you think that democratic societies have enough stability that
minorities are safe from severe persecution?
Barbara:
In a true democracy where everyone matters, yes. But stereotypes, and
prejudices can easily morph into discrimination that all too readily
can slip into persecution. A strong democracy that is a vibrant
entity consists of people who can develop documents, laws, rituals,
and traditions that honor Martin Buber's "I and Thou" and "We"-the
uniqueness of each individual and our common humanity. In a democracy,
when bullying or hate crimes are committed, they are quickly dealt with
and those committing these act are held accountable, thus the spiral
into severe persecution of a group of people is stopped in its tracks.
Norm:
Do you believe the media has done an adequate job in calling to our
attention the bullies of the world? If not, what would you suggest
to improve the situation?
Barbara:
Media was a tool of each of the genocides I studied. The genocidaires
utilized it to spread prejudice, fear, and hatred. Media was also
used to alert the world to what was really happening. Journalists
as witnesses gave voice to those who were being persecuted, raped,
and slaughtered. But speaking truth and describing the horrors does
not mean that those viewing or reading the media will respond in a
deeply caring, compassionate or effective manner to stop the genocide
and offer help[ to those who are targeted.
Norm
How will you be marketing your book?
Barbara:
Same as I promote all of my books-through my lectures, articles,
interviews, and now, starting with your interview, the internet.
Thankyou for this fascinating opportunity.
Norm:
Is there anything else you wish to add that we have not covered and
what is next for Barbara Coloroso?
Barbara:
My next project flows from my book on ethics, Just Because Its Not
Wrong Doesn't Make It Right and this book on genocide, Extraordinary
Evil. In both of these I mention people who were resisters, defenders,
and witnesses-those who stood up for those who were targeted,
pprotected them and gave witness to their plight, who rally against
injustice, who are willing to step in at great cost to themselves. I
want to find out what makes them tick-and can we as parents, educators,
and leaders can learn from them. Can they give us a clue as to how we
can raise a generation of children who care deeply, share generously,
and help willingly? Can they show us the antidotes for the most
virulent agents ripping apart the fabric of our humanity-- hating,
hoarding, and purposely harming one another?
Thanks once again and good luck with all of your future endeavors.
Norm Goldman is the Editor & Publisher of Bookpleasures.com.
Bookpleasures.com is an international community of over 40 reviewers
that come from all walks of life and that review all genre.
---------
NORM GOLDMAN-EDITOR & PUBLISHER BOOKPLEASURES.COM & SKETCHANDTRAVEL.COM
For over thirty five years Norm Goldman practiced as a Title Attorney
and Civil Law Notary in Montreal, Canada.
One day Norm realized he was no longer having fun practising his
profession and he retired to become a book reviewer and travel writer.
Norm reviews books that will make you think and that are related to
business ethics, sports, internet, Judaica, Canadiana, adventure,
historical adventure, travel adventure, contemporary topics, politics,
photography, music, and many more-fiction and non-fiction.
Norm contributes reviews and author interviews to his own site:
BOOKPLEASURES.COM
Bookpleasures.com is an international community of over 40 reviewers
that come from all walks of life and that review all genre. The site
has posted over 1500 reviews and 250 author interviews.
Please come by Bookpleasures.com and check us out. And if you have
a book you wish to have reviewed, please refer to: Bookpleasures'
Submission Guidelines that you will find on the site.
Norm and his wife Lily are also the publishers of their own travel
site Sketchandtravel.com
-------------
http://www.amer icanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?article ID=28201